Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

weepinwillow

the nba: it's faaantastic
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
1,326
Reaction score
1,591
Points
113
Also, Darius Garland is the primary ball handler and decision maker. He has both more time possessing the ball per game than Sexton and also holds it longer each time he touches it.
I have issues with Garland. I have aired those grievances in the appropriate thread.
I still think these two probably need to be broken up. I'd lean on dealing Garland because it feels like Sexton will ultimately figure it out.
I don't disagree with a lot of the specific criticisms of Sexton's game in here. The hyperbole is a bit much, and pigeonholing the guy into a bench role when he is the young player that has showed the most improvement of anyone during the rebuild doesn't make sense to me.

As good as he is off the ball, I would love to see him playing with Delly again, or even someone like Lonzo Ball. They don't have either of those guys though. Put a lineup of Ball, Sexton, Windler, Nance, and Allen out there and you have lots of space to score on offense. Swap Windler for Okoro (with more experience under his belt) and you can lock down almost anyone.

Honestly, Garland probably makes more sense as a 6th man. He could come off the bench and hit a few step backs and set up the reserves while hopefully the opponents backup point guard isn't good enough to kill him defensively. He could be a better shooting Delly that plays no defense. Putting Sexton out there with four bench scrubs is just going to force him to take bad shots and clog up his driving lanes.

But we're not in a position to bring either of them off the bench, and they're still young enough that they could develop enough to work just fine starting together. No one here knows what these young players are going to end up being, and they're going to struggle at times as they develop and learn how to play.
I would love to try and get Lonzo here, though now that seems like it ain't happening. I'd also like Slo-Mo out of Memphis.. those kind of guys next to Collin could really push him and everyone else up.
I'm not trying to pigeonhole the kid, I'm just seeing an archetype for his size and skill set that typically does well off the bench, especially if he doesn't add somewhat better than average court vision and better defense. Actually, it's not even really court vision, as much as it is understanding how and when the ball needs to keep moving etc.. like I said, it's often times the last thing a guy learns.
As for hyperbole: If I can't make sweeping claims that are either somewhat absurd, mildly funny or painfully truthful but completely overstated and over the top.. what else do I have?
 

Dr No

Situational Stopper
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
383
Reaction score
354
Points
63
I don't have any theories on how to make what seems to you match reality. The Cavs offense is 3.3 points per 100 possessions better with Sexton on the floor than off. The defense is 0.6 points per 100 possession better with Sexton on the floor. If the team isn't winning, that guy isn't the reason why. Looking at some of those numbers was interesting.

Larry Nance Jr. 8.8 points better
Dylan Windler 6.3 points better
Collin Sexton 3.9 points better
Jarrett Allen 3.0 points better
Andre Drummond 1.7 points better

Darius Garland 4.6 points worse
Cedi Osman 4.7 points worse
Isaac Okoro 6.7 points worse
Thanks for this - very interesting. The numbers are there for Sexton and he’s the kind of player that will always put up numbers. The argument for and against is going to come down to wins. If we start winning and he’s putting up similar numbers his critics will get quiet. If he puts up these numbers for another 3 years and we are still mediocre to bad, a lot of the criticism will fall on Collin.
 

Randolphkeys

When you gonna gimmie some time, Corona?
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
29,306
Reaction score
66,998
Points
148
The 6'4 do whatever it takes to help his team win Delly that @Randolphkeys first brought to my attention while at St. Mary's long before we signed him as a UDFA would be a perfect 3rd guard for these two. He was such a scrappy defender, selfless initiator and infectious leader on the floor.

Then a few years later, the Cavs went and drafted Windler, the other small school sleeper who blew my mind. Our Cavs college scouts aren't perfect, but they have found a few quality sleepers along the way.

Marcus Zegarowski of Creighton doesn't have ideal size, but he seems like a college player the NBA slept on.
 

"MVP"

Sixth Man
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
1,211
Points
113
Then a few years later, the Cavs went and drafted Windler, the other small school sleeper who blew my mind. Our Cavs college scouts aren't perfect, but they have found a few quality sleepers along the way.

Marcus Zegarowski of Creighton doesn't have ideal size, but he seems like a college player the NBA slept on.
It feels like the Cavs have historically done quite well with later picks. Off the top of my head: Boozer, Boobie, Kapono, Varejao, Danny Green, Joe Harris, Windler, Delly (undrafted).... Cedi (*ducks*), hell even Stevens looks like a great find as a potentially solid rotation player.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
5,787
Reaction score
7,653
Points
113
It feels like the Cavs have historically done quite well with later picks. Off the top of my head: Boozer, Boobie, Kapono, Varejao, Danny Green, Joe Harris, Windler, Delly (undrafted).... Cedi (*ducks*), hell even Stevens looks like a great find as a potentially solid rotation player.
Bill Laimbeer - 3rd round.
 

ryanf

Situational Stopper
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
324
Reaction score
397
Points
63
Sexton started the game on Murray. He was denying him the ball the first few times down and they got tangled up and both hit the ground early. Murray got up pretty upset and said something to the ref and then Collin. Murray picked his pocket just across half court and got a wide open dunk right before Collin subbed out as a result of the two of them accepting the challenge of guarding each other to start the game.

When he subbed out for Windler at 7mins, Okoro switched over to Murray and stayed on him anytime he was on the court. If Okoro was off the court, Collin was trying to guard Murray.

I'm not picking a side in the debate you guys were having this morning, but @BigZ94 was right on this.
You described the first quarter. Did murray score most of his 50 in the first on sexton in the first? No, right?

Murray scored most of it in the 2nd half against the horrible switching defense. At one point, even javale was motioning to the bench the switch isn't working. So no, i'm not wrong on this and murray did not "bully" sexton's defense
 

RchfldCavRaised

Locker Room Presence
Moderator
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
10,968
Reaction score
18,448
Points
123
It feels like the Cavs have historically done quite well with later picks. Off the top of my head: Boozer, Boobie, Kapono, Varejao, Danny Green, Joe Harris, Windler, Delly (undrafted).... Cedi (*ducks*), hell even Stevens looks like a great find as a potentially solid rotation player.

We drafted Matt Barnes out of UCLA and sent him right to the D League. He had a 15/16 yr career.

UPDATE: Memphis drafted him for us and we traded them Wes Person after they made the pick
 

foucault87

In the Rotation
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
598
Reaction score
524
Points
93
It feels like the Cavs have historically done quite well with later picks. Off the top of my head: Boozer, Boobie, Kapono, Varejao, Danny Green, Joe Harris, Windler, Delly (undrafted).... Cedi (*ducks*), hell even Stevens looks like a great find as a potentially solid rotation player.
Sasha Kaun, one year in the NBA, one ring.
 

RchfldCavRaised

Locker Room Presence
Moderator
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
10,968
Reaction score
18,448
Points
123
It feels like the Cavs have historically done quite well with later picks. Off the top of my head: Boozer, Boobie, Kapono, Varejao, Danny Green, Joe Harris, Windler, Delly (undrafted).... Cedi (*ducks*), hell even Stevens looks like a great find as a potentially solid rotation player.

Last one @"MVP" :

We drafted Chucky Brown.

Known to preteen Richfld for 2 things.

1. His rookie card was in every other pack of my favorite basketball cards of all time '90-91 Hoops. I'm not kidding, if I go out to my garage and take my cards out, I have 4 of these in my book with all the Hoops 90-91's. I couldnt open a pack without seeing this damn card :chuckle:

hoops-cb.jpg

2. The running joke on every broadcast through the 90's was that Chucky Brown played for every NBA team in the country over the course of his career. If I was watching a game, and Chucky went to the scorers table, one of the announcers were going to make fun of him for redefining the term "journey man". If you look up journey man in NBA Dictionary, you're going to see that damn 90-91 Chucky Brown Hoops rookie card :mad:

Chucky-Brown-Wikipedia.png
 

bleachkit

Towel Waver
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
100
Reaction score
133
Points
43
Image
Not a strong validation of Sexton's play from NBA math.
 

ansatsusha80

I'm from the Land
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
3,759
Points
113
Thanks for this - very interesting. The numbers are there for Sexton and he’s the kind of player that will always put up numbers. The argument for and against is going to come down to wins. If we start winning and he’s putting up similar numbers his critics will get quiet. If he puts up these numbers for another 3 years and we are still mediocre to bad, a lot of the criticism will fall on Collin.

This is a lie and you know it. When the Cavs were playing well alot of people were still complaining about him... No matter,what he can't win with this fanbase and the media in Cleveland.

And,why does he have to be the one getting all the criticism.

This team has a point guard that has a habit of being passive offensively.

Cedi always disappears most of the time.

Nobody know about Okoro and Windler's progression.

Nance is a good defender but isnt a scorer.

The only reliable person outside of Sexton is Allen. And,we don't know if he wants to stay here but somehow Sexton will get alot of the blame,if the team is mediocre...
 

avs2000

Sixth Man
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
1,775
Reaction score
2,230
Points
113
This is a lie and you know it. When the Cavs were playing well alot of people were still complaining about him... No matter,what he can't win with this fanbase and the media in Cleveland.

And,why does he have to be the one getting all the criticism.

This team has a point guard that has a habit of being passive offensively.

Cedi always disappears most of the time.

Nobody know about Okoro and Windler's progression.

Nance is a good defender but isnt a scorer.

The only reliable person outside of Sexton is Allen. And,we don't know if he wants to stay here but somehow Sexton will get alot of the blame,if the team is mediocre...
Sexton is hard nosed. Garland is a passive wimp. I don’t think sexton is a pg per se. better at the off guard. But garland is not this teams future at pg. he is just soft and small
 

New Ownership

Total amount
$640.00
Goal
$1,200.00
Donation ends:
Top