Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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What Resolves First?

  • Collin Sexton's Restricted Free Agency

    Votes: 19 38.8%
  • Baker Mayfield's Tenure with the Browns

    Votes: 30 61.2%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

Blazie

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These takes drive me nuts and I shouldn't let it get on my nerves but it does.

  • Sexton has never been an overly efficient guard. Even as he's improved his efficiency numbers, they still ranked him somewhere in the middle of the pack amongst starting guards. He also did so on high usage rates and low assist percentages so I think some Cavs fans are using the term "efficient" way too loosely when talking about Sexton. Through 11 games to start the season, he was playing more off the ball (as he should) and he put in 2 or 3 good performances and twice as many disastrous ones. It would have been nice to see if he could improve in that role, but at no point in any of his development from AAU through his first few years in the league has he shown the ability to play team basketball when said team basketball doesn't involve him pounding the ball or ball stopping.

  • I honestly do not get where this narrative came from that he established the current Cavs culture. For starters the vast majority of players Collin played with before last season -- a successful season (by recent standards) largely without him -- are gone. The Drummonds, McGee's, Prince's, Nance Jr's, Porter Jr's are all gone. And in the seasons leading up he's had clashes with teammates -- most notably Love and Jarrett Allen. He played here for three seasons on bad teams, padded his stats and lost a lot. Sure we all here the stories about how much of a basketball junkie and hard worker he is but it never really lent to improved team play and winning basketball.

It's going to take about 1 game for people to see Mitchell and realize "Oh wow we compared Collin to this guy?" and the fanbase's memories of Sexton will slowly start to fade.

My bad. I meant to say we would have had a championship with this roster if we had just cut him 3 years ago. Thanks for the correction.

Your last statement confuses me a little though, as I'm not sure where I compared Sexton to Mitchell... but I can tell you're a little emotional right now, so its cool. :)
 

inliner311

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These takes drive me nuts and I shouldn't let it get on my nerves but it does.

  • Sexton has never been an overly efficient guard. Even as he's improved his efficiency numbers, they still ranked him somewhere in the middle of the pack amongst starting guards. He also did so on high usage rates and low assist percentages so I think some Cavs fans are using the term "efficient" way too loosely when talking about Sexton. Through 11 games to start the season, he was playing more off the ball (as he should) and he put in 2 or 3 good performances and twice as many disastrous ones. It would have been nice to see if he could improve in that role, but at no point in any of his development from AAU through his first few years in the league has he shown the ability to play team basketball when said team basketball doesn't involve him pounding the ball or ball stopping.

  • I honestly do not get where this narrative came from that he established the current Cavs culture. For starters the vast majority of players Collin played with before last season -- a successful season (by recent standards) largely without him -- are gone. The Drummonds, McGee's, Prince's, Nance Jr's, Porter Jr's are all gone. And in the seasons leading up he's had clashes with teammates -- most notably Love and Jarrett Allen. He played here for three seasons on bad teams, padded his stats and lost a lot. Sure we all here the stories about how much of a basketball junkie and hard worker he is but it never really lent to improved team play and winning basketball.

It's going to take about 1 game for people to see Mitchell and realize "Oh wow we compared Collin to this guy?" and the fanbase's memories of Sexton will slowly start to fade.

Him starting the culture stuff is a straight quote from Koby Altman. If you look at this conversation he has with Sexton in this video he says it. It's right around 5:50 mark.

 

cabs

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He plays selfish, I don’t buy the good teammate just wants to win stuff at all. He either doesn’t understand how to win or values empty stats more.
He may be the nicest guy off the court, wouldn’t have a clue but on the court he played selfish
 

AZCavs

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Him starting the culture stuff is a straight quote from Koby Altman. If you look at this conversation he has with Sexton in this video he says it. It's right around 5:50 mark.

Lol fair enough. He also says it's good to have Collin back and that they missed him only to give him low ball offers and then trade him, showing how much we really valued him. Almost as if he was talking in front of a camera or something.
 
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AZCavs

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My bad. I meant to say we would have had a championship with this roster if we had just cut him 3 years ago. Thanks for the correction.

Your last statement confuses me a little though, as I'm not sure where I compared Sexton to Mitchell... but I can tell you're a little emotional right now, so its cool. :)
Ahh yes. Misplaced snark. Gotta love it.

Emotional? Nah. I'm happy beyond belief that we actually have an efficient, quality NBA player starting at the 2. The comparison jab was an add-on to a broader point being made about the collective comparison made between Sexton and Mitchell before this trade being made. Nuance been be difficult for certain folks to grasp, so I apologize.
 
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bleedwineandgold03

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You got people in real gm saying the spider equals sexton Lmaoo they don’t know wtf they talking about
 
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The Human Q-Tip

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You got people in real gm saying the spider equals Mitchell Lmaoo they don’t know wtf they talking about

I never know any of these guy's nicknames, so I'm in the same boat. I still don't know - or really even care - who "swaggy p" is.
 

CavsKermit

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Him starting the culture stuff is a straight quote from Koby Altman. If you look at this conversation he has with Sexton in this video he says it. It's right around 5:50 mark.

GMs talk up players values, especially players who could be involved in a trade, all the time. GMs make a point to say the right things about a player when they know full well that they're about to disappoint that player in terms of a contract offer. It's called softening the blow.

It's part of the job and not meant to be taken literally. Agents know that. Players know that. Even other front offices know that. Go back and read what Altman said about wanting a good pick and young player for him last summer because of how special he was. If he was truly that special, he wouldn't have been on the market. Everyone knew that as well. Again, it's part of the job.
 

Blazie

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Ahh yes. Misplaced snark. Gotta love it.

Emotional? Nah. I'm happy beyond belief that we actually have an efficient, quality NBA player starting at the 2. The comparison jab was an add-on to a broader point being made about the collective comparison made between Sexton and Mitchell before this trade being made. Nuance been be difficult for certain folks to grasp, so I apologize.

I guess I'm just too slow to keep up. Sorry about that, and thanks again.
 

Wham with the Right Hand

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Looking at some on/off stats from cleaningtheglass.com it's obvious why they traded Sexton.

In '20-'21, his last full season, the Cavs were 0.9 points per 100 possessions WORSE when Collin was in the game.

In '21-'22 the Cavs were 6.6 points worse when Sexton was in the game. It was ony 11 games, however. When Garland was on the floor they were 13.9 points better (best on the team).

Last year the quintet of DG/Okoro/Markkanen/Mobley/Allen was 10.2 points better than the opposition. But if you replace Okoro with Sexton in that lineup they were 2.1 points better.

In '20-'21 when Garland and Sexton were on the floor together the Cavs were outscored by 7.0 points per 100. It just wasn't working.

The front office has paid Sexton a ton of compliments since he got here. They really appreciate his work ethic. But playing him next to Garland just wasn't working. I don't think they had any intention of signing him to a long term deal and keeping him here.

Last year the Garland/Okoro backcourt was an impressive +9.5 points, putting them in the 94th percentile. The Garland/LeVert backcourt was a +2.9 while the Garland/Rubio backcourt was +16.2, putting them in the 99th percentile. I believe they were actually the top two-man combination in the league.

In 11 games Garland/Sexton were -1.9; not really bad, but it was clear the Cavs were better with Okoro, Rubio, or LeVert playing alongside Garland.

I respect Sexton and wish him the best but we are not giving up a player that makes us better.
 

wnorman51

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Looking at some on/off stats from cleaningtheglass.com it's obvious why they traded Sexton.

In '20-'21, his last full season, the Cavs were 0.9 points per 100 possessions WORSE when Collin was in the game.

In '21-'22 the Cavs were 6.6 points worse when Sexton was in the game. It was ony 11 games, however. When Garland was on the floor they were 13.9 points better (best on the team).

Last year the quintet of DG/Okoro/Markkanen/Mobley/Allen was 10.2 points better than the opposition. But if you replace Okoro with Sexton in that lineup they were 2.1 points better.

In '20-'21 when Garland and Sexton were on the floor together the Cavs were outscored by 7.0 points per 100. It just wasn't working.

The front office has paid Sexton a ton of compliments since he got here. They really appreciate his work ethic. But playing him next to Garland just wasn't working. I don't think they had any intention of signing him to a long term deal and keeping him here.

Last year the Garland/Okoro backcourt was an impressive +9.5 points, putting them in the 94th percentile. The Garland/LeVert backcourt was a +2.9 while the Garland/Rubio backcourt was +16.2, putting them in the 99th percentile. I believe they were actually the top two-man combination in the league.

In 11 games Garland/Sexton were -1.9; not really bad, but it was clear the Cavs were better with Okoro, Rubio, or LeVert playing alongside Garland.

I respect Sexton and wish him the best but we are not giving up a player that makes us better.
I don’t like on/off stats at all. Look at that first 11 game stretch, aka the west coast trip of doom for most east teams, and the fact that the players were just learning to play together with a preseason still mired in Covid, and it really shows the context of that stat last year in this argument.

Give Sexton some of the easier games later in the season where those stats get padded and it’s a very different story.

It may ultimately still be the case that Sexton wasn’t a great fit, but on/off stats without context don’t tell much in my opinion.
 

Derek

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I don’t like on/off stats at all. Look at that first 11 game stretch, aka the west coast trip of doom for most east teams, and the fact that the players were just learning to play together with a preseason still mired in Covid, and it really shows the context of that stat last year in this argument.
You’re right, but we also have a few years of prior data that show the team being better with Sexton on the bench.

The schedule really has no bearing in ON/OFF numbers. If you want added context, knowing who he played in lineups with would be relevant, but all of his most used lineups were better without him.
Give Sexton some of the easier games later in the season where those stats get padded and it’s a very different story.
Easy games vs Tough games don’t really matter regarding ON/OFF numbers. It just shows how a team does with a player on the floor opposed to how they do when he sits.


It may ultimately still be the case that Sexton wasn’t a great fit, but on/off stats without context don’t tell much in my opinion.
Context isn’t an issue as much as sample size is. We can definitively say that the team was better when Sexton sat during those first 11 games, but without a larger sample, I wouldn’t feel comfortable saying that would definitely be the case moving forward.
 

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