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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 18 10.9%

  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 21 12.7%

  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 18.8%

  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 24.2%

  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.3%

  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.1%

  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.1%

  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Total voters
    165
Futuredome said:
That is the question, will his efficiency improve with the higher volume???? Or is this it??? Playmaking wise, yes I can see him being even better in 2 years. Scoring/shooting wise.......I think he is hitting his ceiling.
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He is nowhere near his ceiling as a scorer. He could easily eventually shoot in the low-mid 40’s from 3 for a couple years and score 27+a night if we are talking ceiling. Anyone with his speed, quickness less, handle and natural shooting ability has unlimited scoring potential in this league.
 
Futuredome said:
That is the question, will his efficiency improve with the higher volume???? Or is this it??? Playmaking wise, yes I can see him being even better in 2 years. Scoring/shooting wise.......I think he is hitting his ceiling.
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Did the guy force your mom to give him a rusty trombone or something? I seriously don't understand the constant trolling and hate towards the kid.

What evidence do you have of a 21-year-old guard in their third year hitting their ceiling as a shooter and scorer? Could it be the increased TS% that's trended upward every year he's been in the league? Or maybe it's the outright increase in field goal percentage and scoring this season, if you don't even want to get into advanced stats?
 
IMO, a 27 and 9 All-NBA guy is Garland's absolute ceiling, IMO. Not the floor general that Nash was (though still very good), but scoring-wise would remind you of Nash if he took as many threes as he wishes he did in hindsight. Which is why Klutch will absolutely discourage him from signing any extension this summer if it's not a max.

If he's short of that ceiling, I'll gladly take it.
 
InBoobieWeTrust said:
He is nowhere near his ceiling as a scorer. He could easily eventually shoot in the low-mid 40’s from 3 for a couple years and score 27+a night if we are talking ceiling. Anyone with his speed, quickness less, handle and natural shooting ability has unlimited scoring potential in this league.
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I’m a big Garland fan and I’ve been praising him, but I don’t think 27 a night is realistic. Or optimal for the team. That kind of scoring territory is reserved for the absolutely elite scorers in the league who can do it from basically every level of the floor. I can definitely see DG getting that 3P% to ~40% in his prime. But he doesn’t get to the free throw line enough or score at a high enough volume at the rim (and physical limitations play a role here) to be THAT kind of scorer imo. He’s mainly a floater or lob guy inside, not a guy who can easily finish right at the hoop over length and through contact. And keep in mind only three players - Durant, Curry, Giannis - are at 27+ this season.

You can argue that Steph with a .215 FTr and a .143 rate of scoring within 0-3 feet, along with his 6’3 height, proves that Garland can be that kind of guy. But the issue is that Steph is such an extreme outlier with his shooting, it’s basically impossible to imitate. Garland is a great shooter who will only get better, but he’s not in the stratosphere of a Curry and never will be. And really no one is or will be for a long time.

To me, Garland’s ideal role will be as an efficient (60%+ TS) ~22-23 ppg scorer who also gives you 8-9 apg. That can absolutely be one of the premier offensive weapons in the league without him necessarily almost leading the league in scoring. I think Garland’s tendencies and abilities make a Nash lite-passing/Steph-lite scoring role a much more optimal fit for him.
 
One of the best things about our core 3 (Allen, Garland, Mobley) is they fit each other. Garland is an excellent lob thrower - Allen is an excellent lob finisher. Garland is a very good spot-up 3 point shooter - Mobley is an excellent passer. Mobley is a swiss army knife that can play with anyone. And both Mobley and Allen are excellent defenders who help cover Garland's biggest weakness. They are already making each other better, and with time that should only become more so.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
I’m a big Garland fan and I’ve been praising him, but I don’t think 27 a night is realistic. Or optimal for the team. That kind of scoring territory is reserved for the absolutely elite scorers in the league who can do it from basically every level of the floor. I can definitely see DG getting that 3P% to ~40% in his prime. But he doesn’t get to the free throw line enough or score at a high enough volume at the rim (and physical limitations play a role here) to be THAT kind of scorer imo. He’s mainly a floater or lob guy inside, not a guy who can easily finish right at the hoop over length and through contact. And keep in mind only three players - Durant, Curry, Giannis - are at 27+ this season.

You can argue that Steph with a .215 FTr and a .143 rate of scoring within 0-3 feet, along with his 6’3 height, proves that Garland can be that kind of guy. But the issue is that Steph is such an extreme outlier with his shooting, it’s basically impossible to imitate. Garland is a great shooter who will only get better, but he’s not in the stratosphere of a Curry and never will be. And really no one is or will be for a long time.

To me, Garland’s ideal role will be as an efficient (60%+ TS) ~22-23 ppg scorer who also gives you 8-9 apg. That can absolutely be one of the premier offensive weapons in the league without him necessarily almost leading the league in scoring. I think Garland’s tendencies and abilities make a Nash lite-passing/Steph-lite scoring role a much more optimal fit for him.
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Truthfully, I think this is when he is going to be at his best. A nightly facilitator and dependable scorer that can score in bunches when needed.

On the other end, he's also been pretty decent at playing the passing lanes. It would be even better if he could continue to grow and improve on the defensive end.

The turnovers certainly leave something to be desired, but as a young player with the ball in his hands a whole lot, that's to be expected and an area that should get better as he continues to grow and develop.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
I’m a big Garland fan and I’ve been praising him, but I don’t think 27 a night is realistic. Or optimal for the team. That kind of scoring territory is reserved for the absolutely elite scorers in the league who can do it from basically every level of the floor. I can definitely see DG getting that 3P% to ~40% in his prime. But he doesn’t get to the free throw line enough or score at a high enough volume at the rim (and physical limitations play a role here) to be THAT kind of scorer imo. He’s mainly a floater or lob guy inside, not a guy who can easily finish right at the hoop over length and through contact. And keep in mind only three players - Durant, Curry, Giannis - are at 27+ this season.

You can argue that Steph with a .215 FTr and a .143 rate of scoring within 0-3 feet, along with his 6’3 height, proves that Garland can be that kind of guy. But the issue is that Steph is such an extreme outlier with his shooting, it’s basically impossible to imitate. Garland is a great shooter who will only get better, but he’s not in the stratosphere of a Curry and never will be. And really no one is or will be for a long time.

To me, Garland’s ideal role will be as an efficient (60%+ TS) ~22-23 ppg scorer who also gives you 8-9 apg. That can absolutely be one of the premier offensive weapons in the league without him necessarily almost leading the league in scoring. I think Garland’s tendencies and abilities make a Nash lite-passing/Steph-lite scoring role a much more optimal fit for him.
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I also think his ceiling is 27 ppg, but agree with you that his statistical ceiling might not be how he best fits into an NBA offense. A 23 and 10 guy who gets his teammates going can be as top tier as a guy scoring 2 more baskets per game. Steve Nash never even averaged 18. CP3 never averaged 20. So point taken - ceiling should be even more detached from stat totals.
 
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I think many of his jumping in the air without a clue turnovers are
all part of learning the NBA game and what he can and can't do.
Live and learn.

I think the TV guys last night had something on how Rubio being so
successful while playing at his own pace is rubbing off on Garland
in a good way.

I too have noticed his improvement playing passing lanes.

He must have worked his butt off over the off season. His improvement
is far from over, but you have to like the progress. Nice to see him
taking on some leadership chops too.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
I’m a big Garland fan and I’ve been praising him, but I don’t think 27 a night is realistic. Or optimal for the team. That kind of scoring territory is reserved for the absolutely elite scorers in the league who can do it from basically every level of the floor. I can definitely see DG getting that 3P% to ~40% in his prime. But he doesn’t get to the free throw line enough or score at a high enough volume at the rim (and physical limitations play a role here) to be THAT kind of scorer imo. He’s mainly a floater or lob guy inside, not a guy who can easily finish right at the hoop over length and through contact. And keep in mind only three players - Durant, Curry, Giannis - are at 27+ this season.

You can argue that Steph with a .215 FTr and a .143 rate of scoring within 0-3 feet, along with his 6’3 height, proves that Garland can be that kind of guy. But the issue is that Steph is such an extreme outlier with his shooting, it’s basically impossible to imitate. Garland is a great shooter who will only get better, but he’s not in the stratosphere of a Curry and never will be. And really no one is or will be for a long time.

To me, Garland’s ideal role will be as an efficient (60%+ TS) ~22-23 ppg scorer who also gives you 8-9 apg. That can absolutely be one of the premier offensive weapons in the league without him necessarily almost leading the league in scoring. I think Garland’s tendencies and abilities make a Nash lite-passing/Steph-lite scoring role a much more optimal fit for him.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s likely either…but it’s rare for even star players to truly hit their “ceilings”.


I think Garland is more of a floor general than scorer to be honest. There’s a reason hes apart of all of our best lineups. He’s the true engine of our offense.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
I’m a big Garland fan and I’ve been praising him, but I don’t think 27 a night is realistic. Or optimal for the team. That kind of scoring territory is reserved for the absolutely elite scorers in the league who can do it from basically every level of the floor. I can definitely see DG getting that 3P% to ~40% in his prime. But he doesn’t get to the free throw line enough or score at a high enough volume at the rim (and physical limitations play a role here) to be THAT kind of scorer imo. He’s mainly a floater or lob guy inside, not a guy who can easily finish right at the hoop over length and through contact. And keep in mind only three players - Durant, Curry, Giannis - are at 27+ this season.

You can argue that Steph with a .215 FTr and a .143 rate of scoring within 0-3 feet, along with his 6’3 height, proves that Garland can be that kind of guy. But the issue is that Steph is such an extreme outlier with his shooting, it’s basically impossible to imitate. Garland is a great shooter who will only get better, but he’s not in the stratosphere of a Curry and never will be. And really no one is or will be for a long time.

To me, Garland’s ideal role will be as an efficient (60%+ TS) ~22-23 ppg scorer who also gives you 8-9 apg. That can absolutely be one of the premier offensive weapons in the league without him necessarily almost leading the league in scoring. I think Garland’s tendencies and abilities make a Nash lite-passing/Steph-lite scoring role a much more optimal fit for him.
Click to expand...

I think this sounds about right. It would be nice if he had more aggressiveness/ability to finish, but we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the very, very good. If his outside shooting and playmaking continue to develop, he would be almost a perfect fit for the Allen/Mobley combo that is likely to be here for the next decade or so, because those guys will be taking up some space down low anyway. We will need a plus penetrator/disruptor to round out our offense, but that doesn't have to come from Garland -- from the 2 or 3 will work just fine. His shot and playmaking should keep defenses sufficiently honest that the whole thing can actually work.
 
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