Darius Kinnard Garland

[Nathan S]

So anyone who wants to see more is a homer?

Even the most pessimistic Garland pundits should be waiting for, I would imagine, 100 games prior to passing judgement on a pick being "lost". In my personal opinion, someone as young as Garland and also in need of physical maturation, even longer.

Kemba Walker was generally a disaster his first few years, as a much more mature, physically developed player. Below the rim guys generally have the hardest transition in to the NBA, because the adjustment curve is so large, when you are suddenly at an athletic disadvantage anywhere inside the arc. It takes time for a player to develop and get a feel for how he can counteract that disadvantage, when his whole life he hasn't had to worry or think about it.

Your problem is you love to cast blame or right and wrong in a very reactionary way. There are plenty of draft threads that drive that home. The average, medium career NBA player is probably going to play 800-1000 games in their career. Garland is on game 14. FOURTEEN. That amounts to 1% of the games he will play in his lifetime, if he's an average NBA player. The sample size isn't even worth paying attention to at this point.

Issue I have with Garland so far is it's not just one part of his game that's lagging. Pretty much every single facet of his game has fallen short of my expectations, and my expectations were pretty modest. If he doesn't show any clear strengths within the next few months, and his weaknesses remain as glaring as they've been so far, I'll feel pretty confident that he's a swing and a miss.

 

[Cavatt]

It's too early in my opinion to make any kind of determination on Garland long term. Right now he's playing like shit, can't deny it, but it's not unusual for a rookie PG to struggle early on. Trae Young struggled in Summer League and like the first two months of his rookie season were atrocious, he figured it out and now he's playing well. Still remains to be seen if Garland can figure it out, but I think it's way too early to be concerned. It really just looks like he's thinking too much and trying to work himself into shape and adjust to the NBA game. The NBA 3 is giving him trouble though, he keeps leaving them short, so seems like he doesn't yet have the legs/conditioning to hit that shot consistently in game. Just give him time...like more than a month.

I think he is tired because his conditioning is shit. Makes you miss shots

 

[macbdog]

We have had a tough schedule so far. He really just needs to string together a couple of good games. I bet his struggles are 90% confidence.

Reminds me of Markelle Fultz. Maybe by team no. 2 he will sort that out...

 

[I'mWithDan]

Issue I have with Garland so far is it's not just one part of his game that's lagging. Pretty much every single facet of his game has fallen short of my expectations, and my expectations were pretty modest. If he doesn't show any clear strengths within the next few months, and his weaknesses remain as glaring as they've been so far, I'll feel pretty confident that he's a swing and a miss.

I still just wouldn't feel comfortable giving a definitive answer. Since 1946, only 109 guards have played in the NBA at 19/20 years old. Only 38 played 60 games or more. So it is still just a small group of players.

Outcomes have generally been all over the map too. There are some good NBA players that played a significant amount of games as rookies and just were not any good. All these guys were negative win share players as young rookie guards:

De'Aaron Fox, Gary Harris, Zach LaVine, Jamal Crawford

The prevailing theme with guys on the list too is dramatic offensive improvement from year 1 to year 2. They were all very negative offensive players in year one and flipped in the black in year 2. Lou Williams saw a similar correction between year 2 and 3, where he got more regular minutes and adjusted to the NBA game.

I think you could argue it is very unlikely Garland would be a star level player if he continued the entire year at this type of clip......as there really aren't examples of younger guys just being bad and then jumping to stardom......Fox is maybe the only guy with a chance at this point but there certainly are several examples of guys just being really, really bad offensively and then going on to have long, productive NBA careers. That would still be a pretty disappointing outcome for a top 5 pick but I don't think it is a lost cause if he drifts his way to an underwhelming rookie campaign. You'd still want to see if he experiences a year 2 spike like described above.

 

[Ozone]

So anyone who wants to see more is a homer?

You don't get to see more when you stand on a hill and claim the pick was the best player they could have taken right after they take him. For those who supported the pick and now question themselves , congratulations you are not a homer. For those using the excuse "I need time to see him play more" when they knew he hadn't played enough against anyone NBA level pre draft are definitely being homers.
Sure he has all the time in the world to develop into something useful as a playmaker, but you're going to die on that hill claiming he is going to be the best option the Cavs had at 5 if that is your take.

 

[Cavatt]

You don't get to see more when you stand on a hill and claim the pick was the best player they could have taken right after they take him. For those who supported the pick and now question themselves , congratulations you are not a homer. For those using the excuse "I need time to see him play more" when they knew he hadn't played enough against anyone NBA level pre draft are definitely being homers.
Sure he has all the time in the world to develop into something useful as a playmaker, but you're going to die on that hill claiming he is going to be the best option the Cavs had at 5 if that is your take.

I still don't understand who you wanted

 

[NMCav]

You don't get to see more when you stand on a hill and claim the pick was the best player they could have taken right after they take him. For those who supported the pick and now question themselves , congratulations you are not a homer. For those using the excuse "I need time to see him play more" when they knew he hadn't played enough against anyone NBA level pre draft are definitely being homers.
Sure he has all the time in the world to develop into something useful as a playmaker, but you're going to die on that hill claiming he is going to be the best option the Cavs had at 5 if that is your take.

You can go back and look. I was particular leading up to the draft I wanted Garland. I didn't sell myself on him. I wanted no part of Hunter, Culver. I wanted Garland and would have settled for White or Reddish. People saying Rui, Herro, Hayes etc. were not even on the Cavs radar at 5. Hindsight is always 20-20. I believed in Garlands skill and bloodlines leading up to the draft. And it will take more then 14 games for me to give up on him now. Sometimes you swing for the fences. We may have struck out instead but its not even 15 games into his career yet to know what we got.

 

[Ozone]

You can go back and look. I was particular leading up to the draft I wanted Garland. I didn't sell myself on him. I wanted no part of Hunter, Culver. I wanted Garland and would have settled for White or Reddish. People saying Rui, Herro, Hayes etc. were not even on the Cavs radar at 5. Hindsight is always 20-20. I believed in Garlands skill and bloodlines leading up to the draft. And it will take more then 14 games for me to give up on him now. Sometimes you swing for the fences. We may have struck out instead but its not even 15 games into his career yet to know what we got.

Swinging for the fences is Sekou Doumbouya ,Jaxson Hayes or KPJ after trading down a few spots. Luckily for the Cavs every team with a draft pick 1-29 including the Cavs not once but twice slept on KPJ but still got him.
Garland is an elite ball handler who broke down terrible defenders in high school and a little bit in college and that was enough for you to wait to see if he can do it against grown men despite not having to get reps in given the skill is something you work on alone? tbh the one hope I have for him flipping the coin is the new traveling rule has completely fucked up his rhythm and adding the fact that he was out of the gym for so long maybe he forgot how to shoot and can regain that , but it's likely wishful thinking at best. I think IF he forgot how to shoot why was he so good this summer in his workout that supposedly sealed it for the Cavs to take him? doesn't add up other than he was one on none.
It has to be the NBA defenses are completely stifling his game and that would have become evident in college against teams with good defenses had he ever played against any . This was a terrible miscalculation by this front office and even if he does get back to looking like he did against nobodies it will probably be against 2nd unit lottery teams like the ones he practices against right now when he apparently hits some shots yet cant get it done in actual games

 

[NMCav]

Swinging for the fences is Sekou Doumbouya ,Jaxson Hayes or KPJ after trading down a few spots. Luckily for the Cavs every team with a draft pick 1-29 including the Cavs not once but twice slept on KPJ but still got him.
Garland is an elite ball handler who broke down terrible defenders in high school and a little bit in college and that was enough for you to wait to see if he can do it against grown men despite not having to get reps in given the skill is something you work on alone? tbh the one hope I have for him flipping the coin is the new traveling rule has completely fucked up his rhythm and adding the fact that he was out of the gym for so long maybe he forgot how to shoot and can regain that , but it's likely wishful thinking at best. I think IF he forgot how to shoot why was he so good this summer in his workout that supposedly sealed it for the Cavs to take him? doesn't add up other than he was one on none.
It has to be the NBA defenses are completely stifling his game and that would have become evident in college against teams with good defenses had he ever played against any . This was a terrible miscalculation by this front office and even if he does get back to looking like he did against nobodies it will probably be against 2nd unit lottery teams like the ones he practices against right now when he apparently hits some shots yet cant get it done in actual games

Hayes isn't swinging for the fences. His profile was DeAndre Jordan. He had zero offensive skill. He can block shots and protect the rim but that's not swinging for the fences. That's a guy you take in the late teens or 20s. If any big was swinging for the fences it would have been Goga.

 

[Rich]

I need him to prove to me he can shoot in game.

If hes just an average 3 point shooter then he's gonna be a bust of a 5th pick. This alleged amazing jumper needs to start making an appearance.

 

[dawgpound23]

I attended the Heat/Cavs game last night and sat in the first row behind the Cavs bench . From the very start of the game, Garland seemed disinterested . When he would be benched , he would constantly scan the crowd instead of watching his teammates. During timeouts and huddles, he didn’t even pay attention to Beilein. I did not seem them communicate one time. I actually saw Lindsay rub his shoulders while she was seated behind him and tell him to focus . I don’t usually post , but just thought I would share what I witnessed. On a good note , Sexton was the complete opposite. He was super involved and communicated well with the players and during the huddles. Garland showed zero passion and barely spoke with any of the players.

 

[NMCav]

I attended the Heat/Cavs game last night and sat in the first row behind the Cavs bench . From the very start of the game, Garland seemed disinterested . When he would be benched , he would constantly scan the crowd instead of watching his teammates. During timeouts and huddles, he didn’t even pay attention to Beilein. I did not seem them communicate one time. I actually saw Lindsay rub his shoulders while she was seated behind him and tell him to focus . I don’t usually post , but just thought I would share what I witnessed. On a good note , Sexton was the complete opposite. He was super involved and communicated well with the players and during the huddles. Garland showed zero passion and barely spoke with any of the players.

I'm not going to defend Garland. However when your on a cold streak some guys keep to themselves. I've seen no reports of him being disinterested or giving players the cold shoulder but this is interesting.

 

[Lumthemad]

Coming in at 19 when you aren't the guy getting the shots most of the time is a rough kick on the ego. He's being asked to do a lot and frankly, right now he's not doing much of it at a high level.

You can see glimpses of the vast talent he possess but my rook is THINKING out there way too much. Until that stops and you see him relax and just play, you will get the same play over and over. I think a week or two coming off the bench could be precisely what he could need.

 

[Ozone]

Hayes isn't swinging for the fences. His profile was DeAndre Jordan. He had zero offensive skill. He can block shots and protect the rim but that's not swinging for the fences. That's a guy you take in the late teens or 20s. If any big was swinging for the fences it would have been Goga.

Yes he is esp a few picks later. They already knew if they were paying attention that he was the highest ceiling rim runner in the draft and the high ft% is always a good sign for developing a more versatile offensive game like a consistent jumper. is he raw in that regard yep, does that make him less of a swing for the fences type nope just the opposite.
He was widely considered the highest motor big in the draft with freakish athleticism speed and upside defensively. He averaged a respectable 10 points and 5 rebounds despite being very raw as a rebounder, was voted Big 12 Freshman of the Year, second-team All-Big 12 and chosen to the league’s All-Freshman, All-Newcomer and All-Defensive teams.
Your takes on these kids is hilariously bad. It's almost as if the only thing you are doing is reading reviews by smoke skreeners.
Hayes already is turning heads in the NBA and has just as much upside, proof is always better than optimism

 

[NMCav]

Yes he is esp a few picks later. They already knew if they were paying attention that he was the highest ceiling rim runner in the draft and the high ft% is always a good sign for developing a more versatile offensive game like a consistent jumper. is he raw in that regard yep, does that make him less of a swing for the fences type nope just the opposite.
He was widely considered the highest motor big in the draft with freakish athleticism speed and upside defensively. He averaged a respectable 10 points and 5 rebounds despite being very raw as a rebounder, was voted Big 12 Freshman of the Year, second-team All-Big 12 and chosen to the league’s All-Freshman, All-Newcomer and All-Defensive teams.
Your takes on these kids is hilariously bad. It's almost as if the only thing you are doing is reading reviews by smoke skreeners.
Hayes already is turning heads in the NBA and has just as much upside, proof is always better than optimism

Proof is always better then optimism but your hyping Hayes? Who I compared to DeAndre Jordan? Thats his peak. You mention FT shooting. He shot 74 percent in college and is down to 62 percent so far in the NBA. He's not an elite rebounder so far this year. I am comparing him to a very solid player. But that's not the type of player you pick in the top 5. Let alone top 10. Pelicans wasted a pick on Hayes.