Darius Kinnard Garland

[Ozone]

Proof is always better then optimism but your hyping Hayes? Who I compared to DeAndre Jordan? Thats his peak. You mention FT shooting. He shot 74 percent in college and is down to 62 percent so far in the NBA. He's not an elite rebounder so far this year. I am comparing him to a very solid player. But that's not the type of player you pick in the top 5. Let alone top 10. Pelicans wasted a pick on Hayes.

Dude, you are so wrong. Darius was not a swing for the fences pick at all, the only risk they took was based on lack of proof against real defenses, and right now he sucks suggesting only a couple possibilities. 1 he shouldn't be playing yet, not healthy 2 he is fine just cant get it done against NBA defenses so those option 1 excuses keep surfacing, 3 he was over picked because this front office was not willing to swing for the fences on a player with more upside but a lower floor like KPJ,Hayes or Sekou.
My take is simple on Hayes, even if he was too risky at 5 they should have been able to easily trade down to get him or one of the other 2 and gained other assets in the process especially if Garland actually had the value at 5 you seem to think he had.
The belief they took Garland at 5 as the clear best option only proves they either have terrible intel, or over played their hand.
imo Hayes is a huge risk at 5 like you say but your suggesting DJ is his ceiling is pretty dumb considering he is already as skilled as DJ and is also a mobile perimeter defender and has shown the ability to shoot unlike DJ.
anyway you want to argue it, just because you think Hayes would have been an overpay at 5 doesn't excuse taking somebody else at 5 that has proven even less.
think he aint nothing more than a dunker and shot blocker?
scouts disagree :

 

[NMCav]

Dude, you are so wrong. Darius was not a swing for the fences pick at all, the only risk they took was based on lack of proof against real defenses, and right now he sucks suggesting only a couple possibilities. 1 he shouldn't be playing yet, not healthy 2 he is fine just cant get it done against NBA defenses so those option 1 excuses keep surfacing, 3 he was over picked because this front office was not willing to swing for the fences on a player with more upside but a lower floor like KPJ,Hayes or Sekou.
My take is simple on Hayes, even if he was too risky at 5 they should have been able to easily trade down to get him or one of the other 2 and gained other assets in the process especially if Garland actually had the value at 5 you seem to think he had.
The belief they took Garland at 5 as the clear best option only proves they either have terrible intel, or over played their hand.
imo Hayes is a huge risk at 5 like you say but your suggesting DJ is his ceiling is pretty dumb considering he is already as skilled as DJ and is also a mobile perimeter defender and has shown the ability to shoot unlike DJ.
anyway you want to argue it, just because you think Hayes would have been an overpay at 5 doesn't excuse taking somebody else at 5 that has proven even less.
think he aint nothing more than a dunker and shot blocker?
scouts disagree :

I'm not saying Hayes at 5 is risky. Your misunderstanding something. I'm saying you don't take a sure fire role player in the top 5. Hayes will never be a star. He's a defensive anchor. JJJ without the shot. You can show videos all day he has proven he can't shoot so far in the NBA. 62 percent from the foul line and hasn't hit a 3 although he hasn't attempted many. He can be a very good defender. Good for him. He will never be able to be more then a 12 to 16 PPG player. He also hasn't rebounding greatly this year either. If taking a sure fire role player is more of a swing for the fences then we have different thoughts on swinging for the fences.

 

[inliner311]

I attended the Heat/Cavs game last night and sat in the first row behind the Cavs bench . From the very start of the game, Garland seemed disinterested . When he would be benched , he would constantly scan the crowd instead of watching his teammates. During timeouts and huddles, he didn’t even pay attention to Beilein. I did not seem them communicate one time. I actually saw Lindsay rub his shoulders while she was seated behind him and tell him to focus . I don’t usually post , but just thought I would share what I witnessed. On a good note , Sexton was the complete opposite. He was super involved and communicated well with the players and during the huddles. Garland showed zero passion and barely spoke with any of the players.

This is interesting. Im not actually surprised because he plays fairly passively.

Initially I thought Garland and Sexton were going to fight for the ball like Dion and Kyrie. As I've watched Garland though, he seems content with the touches he gets on offense. Sexton seems like the one who wants to command the offense.

Personally I think the starting lineup might be just too comfortable for his personality type. He can defer to others and there really isn't much pressure on him. I kind of wish we had a horrible bench and we could put him in there where there would be some pressure for Garland to score.

 

[cabs]

This is interesting. Im not actually surprised because he plays fairly passively.

Initially I thought Garland and Sexton were going to fight for the ball like Dion and Kyrie. As I've watched Garland though, he seems content with the touches he gets on offense. Sexton seems like the one who wants to command the offense.

Personally I think the starting lineup might be just too comfortable for his personality type. He can defer to others and there really isn't much pressure on him. I kind of wish we had a horrible bench and we could put him in there where there would be some pressure for Garland to score.

We do have a horrible bench

 

[pinoycavsfan]

It's time to send Garland and Cedi to the bench and trade Clarkson to free up some minutes for KPJ. A starting group of sexton/delly/mckinnie/love/TT would make the team better defensively. Darius can work on his game and shooting leading the bench and Cedi can hopefully regain his confidence against the 2nd unit. Garland/KPJ/Cedi/Nance/center would be a great bench squad.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Dude, you are so wrong. Darius was not a swing for the fences pick at all, the only risk they took was based on lack of proof against real defenses...

Everyone can go read what I said about Garland pre-draft. I didn't love taking him, nor did I love him as a prospect......but I will disagree that his potential was based solely on tape against bad defenses.

Garland was a team USA player, he was a top 10 guy in his class, played well at EuroCamp and other events, he was a really, really good FT shooter (intimating his shooting should be real), he flashed elite skill off the dribble (in HS, EYBL and his handful of games in college), really nice handle.........the main concern with him, just from a profile standpoint was not skill related. He certainly had a package of skills you could look at and say was top 5 talent.

The big adjustment he still needs to make is to the size and speed of the NBA game, something that just shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The big knock on him coming in to the league was how his frame would hold up against NBA players. People just need to be patient.....it is possible he won't adjust to the NBA game and his downfall will be the one weakness people universally lamented but the hindsight in this thread is getting hilarious at this point. Garland was, universally considered a top 5-6 pick, by most all people I trust........maybe he isn't good in the NBA but it isn't because the Cavs did something out of the ordinary.

 

[Derek]

I'm not saying Hayes at 5 is risky. Your misunderstanding something. I'm saying you don't take a sure fire role player in the top 5. Hayes will never be a star. He's a defensive anchor. JJJ without the shot. You can show videos all day he has proven he can't shoot so far in the NBA. 62 percent from the foul line and hasn't hit a 3 although he hasn't attempted many. He can be a very good defender. Good for him. He will never be able to be more then a 12 to 16 PPG player. He also hasn't rebounding greatly this year either. If taking a sure fire role player is more of a swing for the fences then we have different thoughts on swinging for the fences.

It seems unwise to put a cap on Jaxson's ceiling when he grew a foot in HS and didn't even start until his Senior year

 

[NMCav]

It seems unwise to put a cap on Jaxson's ceiling when he grew a foot in HS and didn't even start until his Senior year

So he didn't start until he grew to be much taller then every other kid on his team? Real promising. When Anthony Davis was a 6-0 PG before his growth spurt he was still a starter and had D1 scholarship offers. That doesn't make it impressive makes it worse. Shows he didn't have the skills and only got to start cause he grew to be bigger then everyone.

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

I need him to prove to me he can shoot in game.

If hes just an average 3 point shooter then he's gonna be a bust of a 5th pick. This alleged amazing jumper needs to start making an appearance.

He can't miss in warmups!

 

[Derek]

So he didn't start until he grew to be much taller then every other kid on his team? Real promising. When Anthony Davis was a 6-0 PG before his growth spurt he was still a starter and had D1 scholarship offers. That doesn't make it impressive makes it worse. Shows he didn't have the skills and only got to start cause he grew to be bigger then everyone.

That's certainly one way to look at it. A close-minded way, but a different way nonetheless.

It's difficult to develop skills and strength when your body is constantly growing. Nobody said Jaxson Hayes was going to be Anthony Davis, but if you don't see that he has a lot of potential to continue growing as a player, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think he was a good pick to play alongside Zion, but as an individual, the early returns look rather promising.

 

[NMCav]

That's certainly one way to look at it. A close-minded way, but a different way nonetheless.

It's difficult to develop skills and strength when your body is constantly growing. Nobody said Jaxson Hayes was going to be Anthony Davis, but if you don't see that he has a lot of potential to continue growing as a player, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think he was a good pick to play alongside Zion, but as an individual, the early returns look rather promising.

He has defensive potential. I acknowledged that. He will never be a offensive force. Its not his game and it's not what he was drafted for. He was drafted to be a defensive anchor.

As for it being hard to develop skills when your constantly growing that's BS. Lots of players have developed skills when growing. A lot of those kids didn't have the resources of a NFL Player as a father and a high level Womens Basketball player as a mother. The fact that he couldn't start until he was a senior and taller then everyone really tells you all you need to know.

 

[Derek]

He has defensive potential. I acknowledged that. He will never be a offensive force. Its not his game and it's not what he was drafted for. He was drafted to be a defensive anchor.

As for it being hard to develop skills when your constantly growing that's BS. Lots of players have developed skills when growing. A lot of those kids didn't have the resources of a NFL Player as a father and a high level Womens Basketball player as a mother. The fact that he couldn't start until he was a senior and taller then everyone really tells you all you need to know.

It's absolutely not BS. You clearly have no knowledge on this topic and his development as a player.

Have a good day.

 

[NMCav]

It's absolutely not BS. You clearly have no knowledge on this topic and his development as a player, so I'll just end this conversation now.

Have a good day.

It's not BS? Players who grow constantly can't develop when height is always changing? Anthony Davis would like a word. Gordon Hayward went from 5-8 as a sophmore in HS to 6-4 as a junior to 6-8 as a senior. He never rode the bench those years. What sets Hayes apart in his lack of development from those 2? You make excuses for the kid when their are examples everywhere of players developing even with rapid changes in height.

 

[Nathan S]

Remind me why we care what these players looked like in HS when we know what they look like in the NBA?

 

[Derek]

It's not BS? Players who grow constantly can't develop when height is always changing? Anthony Davis would like a word. Gordon Hayward went from 5-8 as a sophmore in HS to 6-4 as a junior to 6-8 as a senior. He never rode the bench those years. What sets Hayes apart in his lack of development from those 2? You make excuses for the kid when their are examples everywhere of players developing even with rapid changes in height.

Did I say "can't"?

No, I said "difficult".

He's shown tremendous growth from year to year since I first saw him play as a scrawny 6'9 170 lb 16-year-old. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him develop into an All-Star big man.

PS, Hayward grew a lot in HS, but he was a 5'11 freshman, who grew to 6'8 as a senior. Was only a 3-star recruit, and became an NBA All-Star. It's almost like after he stopped growing, it was easier for him to add strength, and become a better player.