Darius Kinnard Garland

[cabs]

As of right now, I don't see either Sexton or Garland being true point guards. The thing that everyone harps on with Sexton - I see the same problem in Garland, a lack of court awareness. Garland may be a better passer technically but what good is it if he also has no idea where everyone is most of the time. About the only thing both of these guys can do now is dribble a bit into the paint and attempt a lob or other type of pass to Thompson 2 ft from the hoop.

KPJ is looking like a possible Kelly Oubre at best at this point. Maybe it's just a function of being one and doners but all of these guys lack in decision making big time. He would get eaten alive against starting 5s of other teams.

The bottom will really fall out if they trade Love (yeah I know they can be atrocious at times now). I don't think losing Thompson would affect the offense much, more his rebounding would be missed.

Porter’s game is nothing like Kelly Oubre’s

 

[Cavatt]

Porter’s game is nothing like Kelly Oubre’s

First of all Oubre's handle is not very good. If anything Porter Jr looks like a swingman/true 3 and Oubre is a 3.

 

[cabs]

First of all Oubre's handle is not very good. If anything Porter Jr looks like a swingman/true 3 and Oubre is a 3.

Oubre has long had close to the worst shot vs assist ratio in the nba for a wing, Porter is much more of a passer

 

[Stark]

Way too early to say anything definitely, but I've got Porter with more "NBA skill" than Oubre if that makes any sense.

If I had to choose right now, I'd say Porter ends up with the better career, or at least being a better player. Oubre isn' bad, but he's pretty one-dimensional offensively. Porter already has some pretty good vision/passing-ability, and he won't even be 20 years old until May.

 

[Derek]

Delly made one against Toronto so he's up to 13.2% per ESPN. Maybe you thought I was talking about Sexton.

Yep...

What other indicators of a bad shooter tho? Ft% and 2pt% are good. One good season might be a fluke, but he literally never had more than a couple game slump last year. I never saw a season long fluke that was so consistent

I never said bad.

And that's kind of the point of mentioning small sample size. This season is also a small sample size. But when you look at his first two seasons, plus his college numbers, we can probably guess that he's probably closer to a 34-36% shooter.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Getting back to the topic of the thread (Garland), I was looking at some on/off stats from cleaningtheglass.com. It's amazing how much better the Cavs have been when Delly replaces Garland.

The starting lineup of Sexton/Garland/Cedi/Love/TT are being outscored by 11.8 points per 100 possessions. If you substitute Delly for Garland while keeping the other four players the same, that lineup is outscoring opponents by a whopping 19.2 points per 100. The difference is 31 points per 100 when Delly is in for Garland. The average game is about 100 possessions per team.

The starting lineup's number is based on 881 possessions while the lineup with Delly only has 99, so it's a bit of a small sample for the Delly lineup which averages about three possessions per game. I doubt whether this dramatic difference would hold up if they simply switched Delly and Garland.

But it goes to show the Cavs are sacrificing a lot by giving Garland as much playing time as they do. They're giving up points, and possibly wins, now in order to build for the future.

 

[Cavatt]

Yep...

I never said bad.

And that's kind of the point of mentioning small sample size. This season is also a small sample size. But when you look at his first two seasons, plus his college numbers, we can probably guess that he's probably closer to a 34-36% shooter.

Garland looks good and Sexton has been a consistent scorer despite his 3 not falling.

I'd like to see if they can grow together still. They looked deadly against Charlotte right now.

This team needs to fix some things, but our guards including Porter are the best young players on the team.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

Getting back to the topic of the thread (Garland), I was looking at some on/off stats from cleaningtheglass.com. It's amazing how much better the Cavs have been when Delly replaces Garland.

The starting lineup of Sexton/Garland/Cedi/Love/TT are being outscored by 11.8 points per 100 possessions. If you substitute Delly for Garland while keeping the other four players the same, that lineup is outscoring opponents by a whopping 19.2 points per 100. The difference is 31 points per 100 when Delly is in for Garland. The average game is about 100 possessions per team.

The starting lineup's number is based on 881 possessions while the lineup with Delly only has 99, so it's a bit of a small sample for the Delly lineup which averages about three possessions per game. I doubt whether this dramatic difference would hold up if they simply switched Delly and Garland.

But it goes to show the Cavs are sacrificing a lot by giving Garland as much playing time as they do. They're giving up points, and possibly wins, now in order to build for the future.

Small sample sizes that give you odd outcomes tend to adjust to the mean eventually. You're seeing that tonight.

The Hornets have gone on a run literally every time Delly has stepped on the court and Garland has been superb in all aspects. a couple more games like this and those advanced metrics can easily flip.

 

[Jordan]

Yeah, I’m sorry but Garland has really improved over the last ten games. Blaming him is just wrong.

The Hornets constantly oversold on Garland and KPJ to force Sexton, Exum, and Delly to make decisions.

Nonetheless, when all three of the young guys can learn how to control NBA pace (especially Garland), then this league will be in for a challenge. None of them have it figured out, yet, but it’s coming.

 

[red.]

Garland with another decent game. 14/8/5/1. +17

 

[Cavatt]

He was good. Defensively a good one

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

He got cold in the 2nd half. It happens for him and Beilein's whack rotations certainly don't help.

 

[AllforOne]

But it goes to show the Cavs are sacrificing a lot by giving Garland as much playing time as they do. They're giving up points, and possibly wins, now in order to build for the future.

1. Small sample sizes and whatnot, as @RedBlackAttack and @jking948 have already discussed.

2. For a 19-year-old player, the trend is super important. Let's see how your stats hold up over the past 10-15 games, now that Garland has better conditioning, is showing more of his quicks, and is generally figuring out the game more.

3. The point of this season is not, and never has been, victories. If anything, we want to keep the lid on wins, so that the draft pick doesn't go to New Orleans. If the Cavs played Delly over Garland, and if that change resulted in more wins (hardly a given; see points 1 and 2 above) ... that would be all kinds of bad. Fast-forward six months. Your approach leads to the Cavs having an under-developed Garland and no draft pick to join him. The Cavs' approach leads to a much more developed and confident Garland being joined by one of the top talents in the draft.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

1. Small sample sizes and whatnot, as @RedBlackAttack and @jking948 have already discussed.

2. For a 19-year-old player, the trend is super important. Let's see how your stats hold up over the past 10-15 games, now that Garland has better conditioning, is showing more of his quicks, and is generally figuring out the game more.

3. The point of this season is not, and never has been, victories. If anything, we want to keep the lid on wins, so that the draft pick doesn't go to New Orleans. If the Cavs played Delly over Garland, and if that change resulted in more wins (hardly a given; see points 1 and 2 above) ... that would be all kinds of bad. Fast-forward six months. Your approach leads to the Cavs having an under-developed Garland and no draft pick to join him. The Cavs' approach leads to a much more developed and confident Garland being joined by one of the top talents in the draft.

Yeah, it's obvious Garland is part of the future of this franchise and Delly is not, so I wasn't saying Delly should start and get 30 minutes while Garland gets 12. I was just pointing out how dramatically better the starting lineup plays with Delly than with Garland, at least over the first 33 games.

I also agree that Garland is improving rapidly and if we compare the two lineups at the end of the season the numbers should be a lot different. Garland had 8 assists against only one turnover last night and chipped in 14 points with a +17, meaning the Cavs were outscored by 20 points in the 14 minutes he was on the bench. The game was probably lost when Garland was taken out for three minutes in the middle of the fourth quarter and the Cavs up by 8. When he came back in the score was tied.

 

[Jordan]