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Dean the Dream Wade

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Who is the best undrafted Cavs player ever?

  • Jose Calderon

    Votes: 4 3.5%

  • Earl Boykins

    Votes: 9 8.0%

  • Kevin Ollie

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Matthew Dellavedova

    Votes: 59 52.2%

  • Smush Parker

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Scott Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Chris Anderson

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • David Wesley

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Ben Wallace

    Votes: 32 28.3%

  • HOrnyforDean!

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Total voters
    113
BigZ94 said:
im not saying it’s the only reason, I also mentioned in other posts Sexton and Garland often get lost on d, gamble on steals. But I do honestly think their height has something to do with it yes. Height is quite important in basketball, according to your logic we could have a backcourt of Kay Felder and Isaiah Thomas and it wouldn’t matter as long as they play smart defence right?

We had on insanely easy start to the season. And our defense was mostly on the shoulders of Nance and Drummond.

lastly you you said that as long as you have good defensive bigs it doesn’t matter who’s playing the 1.2.3. That statement is simply not true and I would argue that what you said is an oversimplification of nba defence, we have had 2 very good defensive centers all season and as I pointed out we are dead last in defending the 3 point line.
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yep... but somehow having two 6 foot guards work for the jazz who also happens to have an all star defensive center?
 
ryanf said:
yep... but somehow having two 6 foot guards work for the jazz who also happens to have an all star defensive center?
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As I mentioned before Mike Conley is an oustanding defensive PG, one of the best defensive point guards of the last decade. You keep taking about the Jazz, but can you name another team in the history of the NBA that’s been a top 5 defensive team with two 6.1 guards? Can you name a team that’s ever won a championship or even made the finals starting two 6.1 guards? Actually can you even name me a team that’s even made the conference finals starting two 6.1 guards? I doubt it.

So you have one example of the Jazz, that have perhaps the be defensive point guard in the league and the best defensive Center, so yeah MAYBE you can get away with undersized guards if you have a all time great defensive Center. Jazz have also not won anything yet. They look great this year but let’s see what happens in the playoffs before we get to hyped.
 
BigZ94 said:
As I mentioned before Mike Conley is an oustanding defensive PG, one of the best defensive point guards of the last decade. You keep taking about the Jazz, but can you name another team in the history of the NBA that’s been a top 5 defensive team with two 6.1 guards? Can you name a team that’s ever won a championship or even made the finals starting two 6.1 guards? Actually can you even name me a team that’s even made the conference finals starting two 6.1 guards? I doubt it.

So you have one example of the Jazz, that have perhaps the be defensive point guard in the league and the best defensive Center, so yeah MAYBE you can get away with undersized guards if you have a all time great defensive Center. Jazz have also not won anything yet. They look great this year but let’s see what happens in the playoffs before we get to hyped.
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Toronto raptors
 
ryanf said:
Toronto raptors
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Last time I checked Danny Green is 6 foot 6, the Raptors starting lineup in their championship run was : Lowry, Green, Leonard, Siakam and Gasol that’s a lot of size minus Lowry

Last year they started Lowry and Vanvleet and got knocked out of the conference semi finals. They were a top 5 defensive team last year I’ll give you that. But didn’t help much in the playoffs.

I still think my point is valid, you came up with one team that was once a top 5 defensive team one season with two 6ft1 or smaller guards. But the general point that teams with undersized guards don’t defend well is correct. Teams like that never make the NBA conference finals. And there’s one example of a team like that having a top 5 defense
 
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BigZ94 said:
Last time I checked Danny Green is 6 foot 6, the Raptors starting lineup in their championship run was : Lowry, Green, Leonard, Siakam and Gasol that’s a lot of size minus Lowry

Last year they started Lowry and Vanvleet and got knocked out of the conference semi finals, try again?
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after kawhi left. that's a legit team and even in the championship run, lowry and vanvleet was together in significant minutes, you know why? coz green can't make a shot in the playoffs of their championship season. so vanvleet had to play big minutes and he proved himself there.

and i won't try again, i just gave you two examples of championship/playoff teams that feature two 6 foot guards playing significant minutes. i also pointed out that the cavs was a top 10 defensive team in the beginning of the season. i should also point out that in the last 4 games, the cavs were middle of the pack in defending the 3 pt line. if anything, the cavs being the worst defending the 3 is abnormal and coincided with the 10 game losing streak. things are now back to normal even though nance and love is out, all thanks to having wade as the pf.
 
ryanf said:
after kawhi left. that's a legit team and even in the championship run, lowry and vanvleet was together in significant minutes, you know why? coz green can't make a shot in the playoffs of their championship season. so vanvleet had to play big minutes and he proved himself there.

and i won't try again, i just gave you two examples of championship/playoff teams that feature two 6 foot guards playing significant minutes. i also pointed out that the cavs was a top 10 defensive team in the beginning of the season. i should also point out that in the last 4 games, the cavs were middle of the pack in defending the 3 pt line. if anything, the cavs being the worst defending the 3 is abnormal and coincided with the 10 game losing streak. things are now back to normal even though nance and love is out, all thanks to having wade as the pf.
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Which finals team has started two 6.1 guards? Youre examples are the Utah Jazz who got knocked out of the first round and the Raptors who got knocked out of the second round. I wouldn’t call those championship teams. Danny Green was the starter on that Raptors finals team, His shooting was awful correct and they STILL started him because he’s a lockdown defender

My point was about the starting 5 not about significant minutes. And yeah the Cavs were so bad during that 10 game losing streak, and our defence against the 3 line dropped to last. Now we just played the Rockets twice and the Hawks, both pretty bad teams and we looked better. That isn’t evidence that we are a good team at defending the 3point line

I’ll stop now because this is not the correct thread for this and this back and forth is getting a bit silly, don’t get me wrong I have enjoyed our debates though over the last couple days! We just disagree, I think having size at the SG and SF position is vital in having a good defensive team, you don’t think size at those positions are important because of 2 specific teams that both had early playoff exits. I just don’t see your reasoning but that’s ok maybe you’re right! I just don’t see it and feel that the majority of evidence over the history of basketball points to other conclusions then yours.
 
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i accept that we agree to disagree, but since i spent a few minutes researching already, let me share this in the thread.

in the 2019 finals, danny green started all finals games, but...

game 1: green 30 mins, vanvleet 33 mins
game 2: green 26 mins, vanvleet 38 mins
game 3: green 27 mins, vanvleet 33 mins
game 4: green 30 mins, vanvleet 29 mins
game 5: green 33 mins, vanvleet 27 mins
game 6: green 18 mins, vanvleet 34 mins

green only played 2 games with more minutes than vanvleet, with vanvleet playing almost twice the minutes of green in the final game.

this is against GSW that had kevin durant for a couple of games, and still had curry and klay. so, you know, against a great 3 pt shooting team.

why am i being so insistent? having two short guards work in this era of nba basketball, as long as you have length on the forwards and center spot. and why is this in the dean wade thread? because having wade as the 4 meant we had size and length to mitigate the two short guards.
 
ryanf said:
i accept that we agree to disagree, but since i spent a few minutes researching already, let me share this in the thread.

in the 2019 finals, danny green started all finals games, but...

game 1: green 30 mins, vanvleet 33 mins
game 2: green 26 mins, vanvleet 38 mins
game 3: green 27 mins, vanvleet 33 mins
game 4: green 30 mins, vanvleet 29 mins
game 5: green 33 mins, vanvleet 27 mins
game 6: green 18 mins, vanvleet 34 mins

green only played 2 games with more minutes than vanvleet, with vanvleet playing almost twice the minutes of green in the final game.

this is against GSW that had kevin durant for a couple of games, and still had curry and klay. so, you know, against a great 3 pt shooting team.

why am i being so insistent? having two short guards work in this era of nba basketball, as long as you have length on the forwards and center spot. and why is this in the dean wade thread? because having wade as the 4 meant we had size and length to mitigate the two short guards.
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Fair enough, I see your points, small part of me hopes you’re right because would be fantastic if Sexton and Garland could mould into our backcourt of the future, I personally don’t see it but I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. And to the stats you just posted good points but I feel Danny Greens horrendous shooting was a bigger factor to decrease in minutes, rather then Van Vleets play (he was phenomenal though).
 
These posters that want to break up Sexland in order to field a championship team...
The Cavs have very, very little shot of ever winning another championship unless a miracle happens (Another Lebron shows up or some team gifts us prime Kawhi in a trade).
Considering where the Cavs have been the past two seasons I would love to root for a Utah or Toronto (pre or post Kawhi) or Portland that consistently makes the playoffs. All these teams start small backcourts. The Cavs have started putting together the right pieces in Allen, Nance, Windler, and Okoro that can help our guards fluorish too. Sure in a perfect world we would be starting Curry and Klay archetypes in the backcourt but unfortunately 6'-6" guards with Klay's skills on both ends of the court are very rare and I can't think of another in the league.
Gilbert is the 2nd richest owner and made another killing in the stock market yesterday with Rocket. He can afford to pay both players if it comes to it. Sexton and Garland truly seem to like each other too..it's just certain fans that want to break them up because physically they don't meet a certain standard that is almost impossible to meet.
 
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