Deshaun Watson Off the Field Thread v3: 11 games, $5M

[2 For The Brew]

Maybe Harvey agrees 100% with Judge Sue.

Unlikely perhaps, but that would be hilarious on so many levels.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Again, no disrespect, but this just feels very naïve.

It would be great if Harvey was actually a completely neutral and unbiased party, but personally I think it's a bit silly to assume he is considering the NFL handpicked him. It seems like he's there to rule whatever the NFL has told him to rule, only with him *just* disconnected enough from the process to make it seem unbiased.

I'm not assuming that he is. I'm literally not assuming anything. I'm simply saying that it is not certain that he is going to give Watson the 1 year/indefinite the NFL apparently craves. He very well may do that, but he might not. So why not wait?

And I could be wrong here, but once Harvey makes formal his ruling, that's it, right? There's no negotiating a settlement after that to the best of my knowledge.

Sure there is. The contract leaves the ultimate decision on the punishment to the Commissioner. The Commissioner decided to appoint someone to hear the appeal, but it is still the commissioner who signs the piece of paper. If Harvey comes back and says "One year, indefinite", there is absolutely nothing preventing Goodell from seeing if a deal can be worked out. After all, who is going to object?? The NFL will still have an incentive to settle of some kind, because they'd obviously rather not have him serve just 6 games, play the rest of the season, and then have the court action resolved next year so he misses more games in 2023. Is that enough of an incentive for Goodell to settle for something less than a full year/indefinite? I dunno, but there's certainly nothing preventing that from happening.

I see no reason for Watson not to let this play out, then cut the best deal he can if necessary.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Correct. Once Harvey issues a ruling that’s it. The process is over and that is what the punishment is, unless the NFLPA takes the NFL to court.

That isn't true. Think of it this way -- who is going to prevent the NFL from agreeing to something less what Harvey decides?? The whole process is based on a contract between these parties, and if they jointly agree to vary from any term, they can.

 

[CBBI]

I'm not assuming that he is. I'm literally not assuming anything. I'm simply saying that it is not certain that he is going to give Watson the 1 year/indefinite the NFL apparently craves. He very well may do that, but he might not. So why not wait?

Sure there is. The contract leaves the ultimate decision on the punishment to the Commissioner. The Commissioner decided to appoint someone to hear the appeal, but it is still the commissioner who signs the piece of paper. If Harvey comes back and says "One year, indefinite", there is absolutely nothing preventing Goodell from seeing if a deal can be worked out. After all, who is going to object?? The NFL will still have an incentive to settle of some kind, because they'd obviously rather not have him serve just 6 games, play the rest of the season, and then have the court action resolved next year so he misses more games in 2023. Is that enough of an incentive for Goodell to settle for something less than a full year/indefinite? I dunno, but there's certainly nothing preventing that from happening.

I see no reason for Watson not to let this play out, then cut the best deal he can if necessary.

Don't you think you're arguing semantics a little bit?

Basically everyone is saying a variation of "there are tangible benefits both financial and on-field for Watson to settle before the NFL dicks him"

and you're basically coming back with a version of...

"Watson shouldn't settle before the NFL actually dicks him, in fact he should force the NFL to dick him and only THEN come back to the table with more negotiations"

With no sort of fear that the NFL might simply tell Watson that he and the NFLPA had their chance to come to settlement for months and now it's too late?

I also think the idea of Watson serving the original 6 game suspension and then playing the rest of the 2022 season while this thing is tied up in a legal battle is pretty unrealistic and also not particularly smart for Watson.

Not every lawsuit is created equally obviously, but Zeke Elliott's lawsuit (which was more recent than Brady's Deflategate lawsuit) was resolved in almost exactly 2 months. If it took a similar amount of time for Watson, it would be coming to a head right when his 6 game suspension was ending anyway.

Besides, what's the tangible benefit for Watson? Yes, his contract would count for 2022 which is good for him, but he would also be risking a significant suspension now being pushed into 2023 when his base salary is NOT protected like it is in 2022.

And if his suspension is pushed into 2023 when he's set to make 2.7M per game in base salary instead of the $60,882 this year, he stands to lose a LOT more money.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Don't you think you're arguing semantics a little bit?

Basically everyone is saying a variation of "there are tangible benefits both financial and on-field for Watson to settle before the NFL dicks him"

Actually, everyone is not saying that. I'm not saying that because I don't believe Watson getting a full year is a certainty. You do, so you see it as just semantics.

We're going in circles so this will be my last post and response. If Watson's attorneys believe as you do, then they were idiots for not simply taking that deal when it was offered in the first place. Going through the entire process only to accept a deal that was available to you at the outset, when nothing has happened in the meantime to hurt your case, is just dumb.

 

[CBBI]

Actually, everyone is not saying that. I'm not saying that because I don't believe Watson getting a full year is a certainty. You do, so you see it as just semantics.

We're going in circles so this will be my last post and response. If Watson's attorneys believe as you do, then they were idiots for not simply taking that deal when it was offered in the first place. Going through the entire process only to accept a deal that was available to you at the outset, when nothing has happened in the meantime to hurt your case, is just dumb.

Things changed from the beginning to now though. You keep saying nothing has happened to hurt Watson's case and that just does not appear to be accurate. The NFL took the independent ruling of 6 games and chose to appeal it with the intention of significantly increasing it. That *did* happen.

I think the possibility existed that Watson and the NFLPA thought for a variety of reasons that the NFL would not appeal whatever Judge Robinson ruled and this whole situation would have ended right then and there without an appeal. If that was Watson and the NFLPA's thinking, then obviously that was more than enough motivation for them to NOT accept the NFL's offer of a 12 game suspension and a large fine before Robinson made her decision.

The NFL chose to appeal and that significantly impacted Watson's leverage. Clearly Watson has fewer options now that the NFL has appealed the ruling than he did before they appealed/before the ruling was made.

I also don't think Watson getting a full year is a certainty either. I think both sides are actively negotiating a settlement. That said, I think the NFL does hold pretty much all the cards here. If they don't get what they want in the settlement, they are the ones who have the ability to levy whatever punishment they see fit, far beyond the settlement talks. That is their leverage.

Watson's leverage is the circus of a lawsuit. But that's pretty much it.

But as I've laid out, there's significant financial benefit for Watson to NOT be suspended for all of 2022 and also significant financial benefit for Watson to NOT be suspended into 2023 either. So I think ultimately he has even more motivation than the NFL to settle.

 

[Vee-Rex]

My homeboy Daniel Wallach got me thinking it's a little more than zero chance that Watson could win in federal court. If it's 10% or 20% or 30%, I don't know... but it sounds a lot better than what I was thinking before Sue Robinson's ruling.




I understand the notion that the NFLPA agreed to the CBA, but there appears to be a deep pattern of the NFL's abuse of fair notice with arbitrators and labor policy officials acknowledging it. Tons and tons of tweets from Wallach with quotes. So if they can convince a federal judge that the spirit of the CBA itself was violated, then they've got a shot. The harder the hammer, the easier they make the case for the NFLPA in federal court. Obviously it's probably still a small chance, but this just might not be the same kind of federal court proceedings that occurred in the past.

Obviously, chances increase if it goes to Delaware. But from the sounds of it that has been near impossible since the NFL usually take it to NY. Wallach did have some interesting comments on that too, though.

 

[CBBI]

No kidding JJ...

 

[Ohio]

No kidding JJ...

People are *finally* catching on to what's really been going on here for several weeks/months now.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Mary Kay and Joe Thomas have been on the local Bay Area KNBR sports radio in the past 24 hours. I don't listen all the time, so catching them both was a surprise.

They were asked good questions about the Browns and NFL in general, but both had to handle questions about Watson and immediately afterwards the level of interest in Jimmy G.

Can't stress enough that some of the Watson backlash is very self-serving to rival fanbases.

I get it. Not even mad. Anybody who wants to talk to me about the Steelers dynasty falling apart has my attention.

 

[CBBI]

 

[Cement]

Can't stress enough that some of the Watson backlash is very self-serving to rival fanbases.

Amen.

A lot of this outrage stems from the fact the Browns are Super Bowl contenders with Watson.

If Watson was still on Houston we wouldnt be seeing nearly as much moralizing from these fan bases.

 

[Cement]

 

[CBBI]

Active settlement negotiations are being conducted between the NFL and the NFL Players Association in the Deshaun Watson disciplinary matter with talks continuing over the past few days, according to league sources not authorized to speak publicly.

It remains unclear if a compromise will ultimately be reached in advance of NFL designee Peter C. Harvey, a former New Jersey Attorney General, issuing a ruling on the NFL’s appeal of Watson’s six-game suspension levied by NFL disciplinary officer and former federal judge Sue L. Robinson.

Sources expressed optimism that a deal will get worked out. Another source noted the potentially significant discipline expected to be handed down by Harvey should talks fail to reach a deal.

Deshaun Watson update: NFL, NFL Players Association in active settlement discussions in disciplinary matter

The NFL and NFL Players Association are conducting active settlement negotiations in the Deshaun Watson disciplinary matter, according to league sources.

www.profootballnetwork.com

 

[CBBI]

A settlement just makes too much sense for both sides for it to not happen IMO.

-Watson's contract doesn't toll which is a huge financial win for him regardless of how big the fine ends up being.

-The NFL finally gets this story to go just away for a few months rather than it perpetually staying in the forefront of their news cycle because of an active lawsuit. The NFL also gets the PR win from looking tough by way of levying a historic suspension and fine.

And if they really want to the NFL can even take another PR win by donating all of Watson's fine towards a charity that supports women's sexual assault victims.