Donovan Mitchell: All-NBA BEST Team

[Bob_The_Cat]

The post I responded too stated he couldn’t do what he’s doing in Utah what he’s doing here, I’m not saying Koby doesn’t watch international ball, but if he did it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year. So if Koby watched his international performance and wasn’t impressed that’s actually more worrying then him not paying attention to international basketball.

Lauri is 10x the player Allen is, he was breaking scoring records with a terrible Finnish team, this was before the trade. If Koby valued Allen over Lauri after watching those performances he has no business managing a professional basketball team.

Thinking 2 non shooting bigs is a better fit then arguably the best shooting big man in the league is crazy

That being said I still trade for Mitchel, however I do think Lauri was under valued in that trade. He’s a top 30 player, you dont trade that with 5 draft picks, and 2 players including Sexton who’s no scrub. But Ainge is simply clearly the better GM

And the entire post I wrote made it clear why he wouldn't have had the same opportunities here.

See, this is the problem on all these posts. It’s all revisionist history. Lauri wasn’t a top-30 player at the time of the trade. Not even close. The Bulls traded him to the Cavs the year before for Derrick Jones Jr and a lotto-protected ‘24 1st from the Blazers. He wasn't viewed by anyone in the league as a top-shooting big man until AFTER he was traded, Utah put him in the right situation, and he had more opportunities. He was just under 36% from 3 with the Cavs.

If people were upset about Mobley not getting touches this year, they would've been just as upset if Lauri was still here. People continually make stuff up that just wasn't true at the time of the trade. Allen by far was a more valuable piece coming off an All-Star appearance. The Cavs wanted no part of paying Sexton $17M/year. They just weren’t going to keep him because they saw Garland/Sexton didn't work. They didn't trade 5 picks. 3 picks and 2 swaps are completely different than 5 picks, especially when there's a good chance the swaps never come into play.

Anyway, done talking about this trade. It's pointless because people are going to continue to assess it based on what Lauri did on a 37-win team that was catered to HIM. The Cavs team was never going to be catered to him if Garland and Mobley were on the roster. I will reserve my judgment on Lauri for at least a year and see if he's able to elevate his team to playoff contention or if they just kind of hover in the same spot.

There's also the issue of Lauri's injury history. He's missed a ton of games over the course of his career. If he's missing almost 20 or more games every year, that's a major issue. He's played in 61 or fewer games in 4 of his 6 seasons. That's a problem until he proves his durability over several seasons.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

Mobley and to a lesser extent Allen can be that for us

I agree with your assessment of Mobley but JA and his lack of aggressiveness except on dunks will never be that player!

 

[PIP]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

 

[foucault87]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

There is this kid named Victor you might want to look into

 

[stick]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

Lauri's performance in the 2022 Fiba EuroBasket was the primary indicator.

He looked to be in fantastic shape and was utterly dominant. He had to step up for Finland in order for them to make some noise and the call was answered. Ultimately, they lost in the quarterfinals to Spain (who went on to win it all) but the Markk was made. In an environment where Giannis, Jokic, Luka, and the mercurial Cedi Osman played, it was Lauri that ended as one of the best players of the entire EuroBasket 2022 with averages of 28 ppg (2nd among all players only behind Giannis), 8 rpg, 2.4 apg, 1.6 steals on 54.2 percent from the field and 40.5 percent from three.

Besides his physique and overall performance, it was his poise and confidence that stood out to me. He approached each game believing he was the best player on the court and most of the time, he showed that he was.

Now there was never a guarantee this would carry over into the NBA but there was an anticipation that was well reasoned that he was about to have the best year of his career. He went on to do that.

 

[Futuredome]

LM's breakout was 2 months. Then back to his same old self. Overblown.

 

[BigZ94]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

Well.. how? Because he dominated in Europe like another poster mentioned only second to Giannis in scoring. He averaged 28ppg, international basketball is 8 minutes shorter the court is smaller and there is far less spacing to operate compared to the NBA. Scoring is a lot more difficult. So 28 ppg is extremely impressive. Also he just looked like he was in fantastic shape.

Its happened a few times that when players have a good tournament with their national teams they come back in October as better players. Maybe it’s because they are in better shape due to playing in Summer, maybe guys who are role players in the NBA get an opportunity to be a go to guy for a couple months and get a much needed confidence boost.

Europe is no joke anymore look at the last 3 MVPs ^^

I’ll leave at that since we’re in the Mitchel thread.

 

[cavsfever]

And the entire post I wrote made it clear why he wouldn't have had the same opportunities here.

See, this is the problem on all these posts. It’s all revisionist history. Lauri wasn’t a top-30 player at the time of the trade. Not even close. The Bulls traded him to the Cavs the year before for Derrick Jones Jr and a lotto-protected ‘24 1st from the Blazers. He wasn't viewed by anyone in the league as a top-shooting big man until AFTER he was traded, Utah put him in the right situation, and he had more opportunities. He was just under 36% from 3 with the Cavs.

If people were upset about Mobley not getting touches this year, they would've been just as upset if Lauri was still here. People continually make stuff up that just wasn't true at the time of the trade. Allen by far was a more valuable piece coming off an All-Star appearance. The Cavs wanted no part of paying Sexton $17M/year. They just weren’t going to keep him because they saw Garland/Sexton didn't work. They didn't trade 5 picks. 3 picks and 2 swaps are completely different than 5 picks, especially when there's a good chance the swaps never come into play.

Anyway, done talking about this trade. It's pointless because people are going to continue to assess it based on what Lauri did on a 37-win team that was catered to HIM. The Cavs team was never going to be catered to him if Garland and Mobley were on the roster. I will reserve my judgment on Lauri for at least a year and see if he's able to elevate his team to playoff contention or if they just kind of hover in the same spot.

There's also the issue of Lauri's injury history. He's missed a ton of games over the course of his career. If he's missing almost 20 or more games every year, that's a major issue. He's played in 61 or fewer games in 4 of his 6 seasons. That's a problem until he proves his durability over several seasons.

Sorry, but this is complete horseshit. Laurie was exactly the same player the day before the trade as he was the day after the trade. He was a top 25/30 player in the league when we traded him. This is like a basic fact about reality, it’s not up for debate. Again, Laurie did not switch bodies and become a different person on the plane from Cleveland to Salt Lake.

Now, if you’re saying that we *didn’t know* he was a top 25/30 player because Koby is dumb and can’t be expected to know the skills of his own players, that’s an argument. Or maybe you’re saying that we can’t use a top 25/30 player in the league because there is no room on this team for a great stretch big, that a stretch big who can shoot 40% from 3 on 8 3PA per game would be *useless* on this team? That’s an argument too I guess…not sure I agree.

 

[southernflyer]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

does Victor Wembanyama count?

 

[cavsfever]

My favorite part was:

“it was quite evident he was about to have a breakout year”

How ?

In fact can we get a beat on the next sizzling European who is about to break out to get ahead of the game ?

Whether or not it was evident to you that he was about to have a breakout year, it absolutely should have been evident to Koby. Koby is paid MILLIONS of dollars each year to, among other things, know the value of his own players. These arguments that “oh no one could have known Laurie was good” amount to saying that Koby should only be as knowledgeable as some random RCF poster. If so he should only be paid as much as a random RCF poster - nothing.

If after a year of close observation Koby and the organization didn’t know that Laurie had the capacity to be a top 25-30 NBA player that would be absolute organizational malpractice

 

[PIP]

Well.. how? Because he dominated in Europe like another poster mentioned only second to Giannis in scoring. He averaged 28ppg, international basketball is 8 minutes shorter the court is smaller and there is far less spacing to operate compared to the NBA. Scoring is a lot more difficult. So 28 ppg is extremely impressive. Also he just looked like he was in fantastic shape.

Its happened a few times that when players have a good tournament with their national teams they come back in October as better players. Maybe it’s because they are in better shape due to playing in Summer, maybe guys who are role players in the NBA get an opportunity to be a go to guy for a couple months and get a much needed confidence boost.

Europe is no joke anymore look at the last 3 MVPs ^^

I’ll leave at that since we’re in the Mitchel thread.

Then why (with this recognition of dominance on the horizon) didn’t teams line up to offer stars, future stars & picks for his services ?

does Victor Wembanyama count?

No. Not at all. Can’t hide him cause he’s a potential generational talent. Comparing apples to roadkill…

And it’s not a European thing. So if some of you were perhaps sensitive to that comment, my apologies. Hell, the best players in the game today are foreign— so it wasn’t meant as a slight….

But there’s no rhyme or reason to it— players don’t play several seasons in the league, have a summer or 2 in Europe and just come back dominating — nor does most players come over from Europe and just start dominating…

So I’m not sure it’s a thing…

To me it’s an outlier situation— say like Steve Nash 20 years ago— solid player, get in a system that works for you, change your narrative as a player.

 

[Jscc]

Sorry, but this is complete horseshit. Laurie was exactly the same player the day before the trade as he was the day after the trade. He was a top 25/30 player in the league when we traded him. This is like a basic fact about reality, it’s not up for debate. Again, Laurie did not switch bodies and become a different person on the plane from Cleveland to Salt Lake.

Now, if you’re saying that we *didn’t know* he was a top 25/30 player because Koby is dumb and can’t be expected to know the skills of his own players, that’s an argument. Or maybe you’re saying that we can’t use a top 25/30 player in the league because there is no room on this team for a great stretch big, that a stretch big who can shoot 40% from 3 on 8 3PA per game would be *useless* on this team? That’s an argument too I guess…not sure I agree.

Koby knew what he was doing. Like the three towers lineup, when teams started defending Lauri in the second half of the season [post all-star], his numbers turned into volume stats because he was Utah's forced #1 option.

He put up 29 points per game post all-star, which sounds great. Until you realize he did it on ~22 shots, an average 45% FG%, and an atrocious 31% 3P%. He finished the second half as a +1.7

Our guys during that same time-span:

LeVert: 12 ppg on 9 shots, 50% FG%, 47% 3P%, and a +3.6

Mitchell: 30.9 ppg on 22.9 shots, 49% FG%, 38% 3P%, and a +4.1

Garland: 21.2 ppg on 17.2 shots, 44% FG%, 38% 3P%, and a +8.6

Mobley: 17.5 ppg on 12.8 shots, 56% FG%, 26% 3P%, and a +6.7

JA: 13.1 ppg on 8.6 shots, 51% FG%, 0% 3P%, and a +3.3

Lauri probably shoots us out of the play-in if the Cavs gave him that volume and forced him to be something he cannot sustain during the most competitive part of the season. Notice Mitchell's numbers during the same time-span. That is MVP caliber efficiency.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Sorry, but this is complete horseshit. Laurie was exactly the same player the day before the trade as he was the day after the trade. He was a top 25/30 player in the league when we traded him. This is like a basic fact about reality, it’s not up for debate. Again, Laurie did not switch bodies and become a different person on the plane from Cleveland to Salt Lake.

Now, if you’re saying that we *didn’t know* he was a top 25/30 player because Koby is dumb and can’t be expected to know the skills of his own players, that’s an argument. Or maybe you’re saying that we can’t use a top 25/30 player in the league because there is no room on this team for a great stretch big, that a stretch big who can shoot 40% from 3 on 8 3PA per game would be *useless* on this team? That’s an argument too I guess…not sure I agree.

You guys do realize that a top 25/30 player is basically at least an All-Star, right? Or at the very least, a young, ascending player who is a fringe All-Star. Without including this past season (though I realize that’s not going to be possible), I’d love to see you list of top 25/30 players to see who you had ahead of Lauri and who you had behind him. Feel free to collaborate with @BigZ94, because that most certainly is not a ‘basic fact about reality.’ It’s completely made up.

Before landing in Utah Lauri wasn’t a “stretch big who can shoot 40% from 3 on 8 3PA per game.” He was a big that shot 36% or less from 3 on about 6 attempts in 4/5 seasons prior to Utah and played in 61 or fewer games in 4/5 seasons.

 

[ice cream man]

I don't think numbers are necessary when talking about Laurie, Mitchell. Length and shooting is what wins in the NBA. Cavs lack both as a team. Thirdly, you do need 1-2 guys who can get their own shot. The DM trade got us a guy who can get his own shot but really didn't help the team (and in some areas hurt us) in other ways.

I don't think DM is the answer for us but it is definitely possible that a different coach could change my mind.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I don't think numbers are necessary when talking about Laurie, Mitchell. Length and shooting is what wins in the NBA. Cavs lack both as a team. Thirdly, you do need 1-2 guys who can get their own shot. The DM trade got us a guy who can get his own shot but really didn't help the team (and in some areas hurt us) in other ways.

I don't think DM is the answer for us but it is definitely possible that a different coach could change my mind.

He didn’t help the team, but they won 7 more games and made the playoffs. The Cavs finished with a better ORTG and DTG than the previous year, all while not making any deadline moves and playing the year without a real SF.