Donovan Mitchell: All-NBA BEST Team

[Cavatt]

Weird people think Koby didn't Value Lauri enough. He used him as a centerpiece in a trade for a star. It's usually a really good player and a young upside guy with picks.

Everyone was excited about Lauri after FIBA. I don't remember a single person thinking losing Lauri would not hurt. Lost shooting and size.

Pick compensation was tough but it's been crazy on that front for years.

 

[HammerGold]

Weird people think Koby didn't Value Lauri enough. He used him as a centerpiece in a trade for a star. It's usually a really good player and a young upside guy with picks.

Everyone was excited about Lauri after FIBA. I don't remember a single person thinking losing Lauri would not hurt. Lost shooting and size.

Pick compensation was tough but it's been crazy on that front for years.

It was an overpay. We gave up too much for a guy who's around the 15th best player in the league.

There's basically no avenues to improve the team now.

 

[inliner311]

Weird people think Koby didn't Value Lauri enough. He used him as a centerpiece in a trade for a star. It's usually a really good player and a young upside guy with picks.

Everyone was excited about Lauri after FIBA. I don't remember a single person thinking losing Lauri would not hurt. Lost shooting and size.

Pick compensation was tough but it's been crazy on that front for years.

I don't think people are thinking that Koby didn't value Lauri but that he didn't have a proper value on him. Like you said the pick compensation was tough, if Koby was giving up someone of Lauri's value and the contract he was under, the pick and other players in the compensation shouldn't have been what it was. I think when you add up everything we gave up for Mitchell, alot of us view it was way too much.

The other part of it was it was an all in trade when we didn't have the pieces left over for a good enough rotation to make that type of all in trade. The path forward with the assets we have to upgrade this roster doesn't give us many options. People like to bring up that we aren't a free agent destination when bring up in favor of the Mitchell trade but it also cuts the other way too. We aren't a free agent destination and to have to rely on free agency to build out our roster going forward because we lack assets is going to be real hard.

Too often we get into back and forwards about Mitchell vs Lauri or Mitchell Vs Sexton or Mitchell vs the draft picks we gave up. At the end of the day, we gave up all those things for Mitchell and it has really limited the options for this organization going forward.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I don't think people are thinking that Koby didn't value Lauri but that he didn't have a proper value on him. Like you said the pick compensation was tough, if Koby was giving up someone of Lauri's value and the contract he was under, the pick and other players in the compensation shouldn't have been what it was. I think when you add up everything we gave up for Mitchell, alot of us view it was way too much.

The other part of it was it was an all in trade when we didn't have the pieces left over for a good enough rotation to make that type of all in trade. The path forward with the assets we have to upgrade this roster doesn't give us many options. People like to bring up that we aren't a free agent destination when bring up in favor of the Mitchell trade but it also cuts the other way too. We aren't a free agent destination and to have to rely on free agency to build out our roster going forward because we lack assets is going to be real hard.

Too often we get into back and forwards about Mitchell vs Lauri or Mitchell Vs Sexton or Mitchell vs the draft picks we gave up. At the end of the day, we gave up all those things for Mitchell and it has really limited the options for this organization going forward.

I get that the Cavs might have limited assets, but I don’t understand giving up hope and throwing everyone in the garbage not even a full year after a trade. It doesn’t make any damn sense. Especially not when the record improved and the player we added had a case to be 1st Team All-NBA.

We have no idea what’s going to occur, and despite the doom and gloom people want to proclaim, Koby actually has a pretty good track record of turning up players for good values.

People blasted him extensively over the LeVert trade, which now looks like a super value (Rubio expiring and #26). Allen was acquired for next-to-nothing. Lauri was acquired for Nance and a 2nd. Players get dumped unexpectedly all the time. O’Neale came available out of nowhere last year, which eventually led to the dismantling of the Jazz. I’m willing to reserve some judgment until we get through this off-season. You guys can sit here and complain all you want, but the fact is all these problems could potentially be resolved in six weeks.

 

[Jscc]

I get that the Cavs might have limited assets, but I don’t understand giving up hope and throwing everyone in the garbage not even a full year after a trade. It doesn’t make any damn sense. Especially not when the record improved and the player we added had a case to be 1st Team All-NBA.

The complaints about not having the assets to improve are silly imo. The Cavs have assets to get shooters and depth. Those are all they need.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The complaints about not having the assets to improve are silly imo. The Cavs have assets to get shooters and depth. Those are all they need.

If it is that easy to get shooters and depth, why don't we have them already?

Shooting is the single most valuable commodity in the league, and pretty much everyone wants more of it. Finding a guy who can shoot and is sufficiently not-terrible at other things that he's playable is not easy.

 

[BigZ94]

I'm so confused. Do you not understand that when guys are put into different situations, on different teams, with more opportunity, they sometimes play better (or worse) depending on fit, style of play, personnel, etc? Just one year earlier, teams around the league saw so much potential in Lauri (after shooting 40% from 3, mind you) that all the Bulls could get for him was Derrick Jones Jr and a lotto protected-pick.

All I'm asking for is your pre-season list for the 22-23 season of your top 30 players in the NBA. I'd like to see where Lauri shakes out in the group and who isn't on the list. It's something I kind of figured you'd already have done and would be easy to produce.

By the way, I'm not making excuses for Koby, I just think the Lauri / Mitchell discussion is pretty dumb. Seems like you do, too.

Game Thread | Game #38 | Bulls @ Cavs | Jan. 2, 2023

Mitchell scored or assisted on 99 points. The most since Wilt's 100 point game.

realcavsfans.com

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Sometimes I get the impression a lot of NBA Gms don’t really understand basketballs a lot of them never played or coached at a high level. They are however great businessmen and can navigate all the complicated rules the nba have about trades and salaries etc. The bulls are a badly run team in my opinion. They never gave Laurie and chance and hired bad coaches. The Vuc trade was terrible. A lot of fans saw it but somehow their GM didn’t. GMs make awful headdscartching decisions all the time. Minny trading for Gobert, the Nets giving us Allen for free because they thought Jordan was good enough. So saying Laurie was under valued because we didn’t give up much for him doesn’t mean he didn’t have value, it means the Bulls gm was dumb.

However I think you’re forgetting that’s Laurie was a sign and trade, trading a decent player a first (lottery protected) pick and a second is actually quite a lot of value for a snt

 

[Futuredome]

Sometimes I get the impression a lot of NBA Gms don’t really understand basketballs a lot of them never played or coached at a high level. They are however great businessmen and can navigate all the complicated rules the nba have about trades and salaries etc. The bulls are a badly run team in my opinion. They never gave Laurie and chance and hired bad coaches. The Vuc trade was terrible. A lot of fans saw it but somehow their GM didn’t. GMs make awful headdscartching decisions all the time. Minny trading for Gobert, the Nets giving us Allen for free because they thought Jordan was good enough. So saying Laurie was under valued because we didn’t give up much for him doesn’t mean he didn’t have value, it means the Bulls gm was dumb.

However I think you’re forgetting that’s Laurie was a sign and trade, trading a decent player a first (lottery protected) pick and a second is actually quite a lot of value for a snt

This post is beyond dumb. Giving "Laurie" a chance was what the Cavs did. He simply wasn't in the picture due to Mobley. Accept it, whine how his value was used, but don't give me that "undervalued" crap. Amazing how the Jazz catfished your types for 2 months before the league caught on and LM declined.

 

[Jscc]

If it is that easy to get shooters and depth, why don't we have them already?

Shooting is the single most valuable commodity in the league, and pretty much everyone wants more of it. Finding a guy who can shoot and is sufficiently not-terrible at other things that he's playable is not easy.

Too many buyers at the deadline coupled with being complacent with what we had because it was Mitchell's first year.

Guys like Richardson, DFS, and O'Neil should be available for much less, or in Richardson's case he's a FA. I expect the FO to get a couple of them. Meanwhile, teams like Milwaukee are completely capped out and just traded for Crowder for like five second round picks.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Too many buyers at the deadline coupled with being complacent with what we had because it was Mitchell's first year.

Guys like Richardson, DFS, and O'Neil should be available for much less, or in Richardson's case he's a FA. I expect the FO to get a couple of them. Meanwhile, teams like Milwaukee are completely capped out and just traded for Crowder for like five second round picks.

But the inability of both the Cavs and other teams to find shooters has been going on literally for years. Every single team in the league wants more shooting, and we don't have any capspace to outbid anyone. We just have to hope they prefer our MLE to someone else's.

We also lack the trade assets to acquire meaningful talent outside of FA.

But I suppose we'll see soon enough. I just think we'll be lucky to get one plus shooter who is a rotational guy, much less a starter.

 

[inliner311]

But the inability of both the Cavs and other teams to find shooters has been going on literally for years. Every single team in the league wants more shooting, and we don't have any capspace to outbid anyone. We just have to hope they prefer our MLE to someone else's.

We also lack the trade assets to acquire meaningful talent outside of FA.

But I suppose we'll see soon enough. I just think we'll be lucky to get one plus shooter who is a rotational guy, much less a starter.

Also this is considered a weak free agent class. There isn't going to be big name free agents to full up free cap space. There are going to be alot of teams looking to shore up their rotation with the level of player we will be targeting.

 

[Jscc]

But the inability of both the Cavs and other teams to find shooters has been going on literally for years. Every single team in the league wants more shooting, and we don't have any capspace to outbid anyone. We just have to hope they prefer our MLE to someone else's.

We also lack the trade assets to acquire meaningful talent outside of FA.

But I suppose we'll see soon enough. I just think we'll be lucky to get one plus shooter who is a rotational guy, much less a starter.

I guess it would depend on what you mean by meaningful. I don't anticipate getting starting shooters or an ideal SF that can do both. That's probably gone. And that's fine because I don't think this team needs anything except a backup big bodied big that can rebound and bench shooters to get better.

When they go over the first apron likely by re-signing LeVert, they will have the full MLE and BLE. This is an attractive place for shooters imo and we will be one of the few previously seeded playoff teams that will be able to offer full MLEs and BLEs. They also have nine second round picks between 2024-2029, Okoro, and maybe JA [around the trade deadline if necessary] to play around with. The Lakers did more with less last season. Deals are out there and I expect Koby to find them.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Sometimes I get the impression a lot of NBA Gms don’t really understand basketballs a lot of them never played or coached at a high level. They are however great businessmen and can navigate all the complicated rules the nba have about trades and salaries etc. The bulls are a badly run team in my opinion. They never gave Laurie and chance and hired bad coaches. The Vuc trade was terrible. A lot of fans saw it but somehow their GM didn’t. GMs make awful headdscartching decisions all the time. Minny trading for Gobert, the Nets giving us Allen for free because they thought Jordan was good enough. So saying Laurie was under valued because we didn’t give up much for him doesn’t mean he didn’t have value, it means the Bulls gm was dumb.

However I think you’re forgetting that’s Laurie was a sign and trade, trading a decent player a first (lottery protected) pick and a second is actually quite a lot of value for a snt

So if Koby makes a good move, it's because the other GM is dumb. If Koby makes a trade you don't agree with, it's because Koby is dumb. Larry Nance Jr and a 2nd is now a lot to trade for Lauri. Am I getting this right?

 

[dms]

The Cavs and Knicks three-point shooting in that series was essentially equal [NY's 42 made 3s to CLE's 50]. It came down to rebounding. NY won that battle 227-186. The team that won the game's rebounding battle won the game. Cavs won it in game 2 and lost it in the other games. Rebounding is something you can clean up. Though I'm not sure this is possible under JBB. The lack of fundamentals was pretty apparent. How many times have we raged about the lack of boxing out in the game threads all season? I see these undersized teams like Golden State and Miami crashing the boards. They are being taught to do it and how to do it effectively. I see Kyle Lowry boxing out Robert Williams or Love collecting 12 rebounds. It's infuriating.

Regardless, the final score in 3 of the 5 losses was still within 11. A few more threes and it's a different series. You can't clean up the three point shooting like you can rebounding. That's why it should be the focus. It will get the team where it needs to be imo.

They can't clean up rebounding with the current roster. You refer to the Warriors as undersized, yet they have a 6'6" guard in their starting lineup. We run out two 6'1" guards and Okoro who rebounding wise plays like he's 6'1" (Mitchell gets more boards per 36) New York was the worst opponent for us, they are loaded with bigs along with a superior smaller rebounder in Josh Hart. This isn't on coaching

 

[BigZ94]

So if Koby makes a good move, it's because the other GM is dumb. If Koby makes a trade you don't agree with, it's because Koby is dumb. Larry Nance Jr and a 2nd is now a lot to trade for Lauri. Am I getting this right?

It was a sign and trade not a straight up trade, bit different. A player has zero years left in their contract, thus are cheaper