Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

[Gson]

The Dodgers, imo, remain the best fit for a big deal.. otherwise.. smaller one for one or two for one type deals will work better..

 

[petes999]

The Dodgers, imo, remain the best fit for a big deal.. otherwise.. smaller one for one or two for one type deals will work better..

The only problem with the Dodgers is that their top players which we want were in A/AA ball last year. To fit a 3-1 trade into our lineup, we need to find MLB/AAA ready guys who can take over for Hentges/Zimmer and Mercado to fit on our 40. We could trade guys like Chang and Clement but even Busch needs a bit of time at AAA before he can do that. Like I said before, Beiber seems like best fit for them and we will hold onto him until next year (depending on negotiation of extensions) and by them their players and are are more readily to fill in to our lineup to take over for our fringe guys.

 

[Gson]

The only problem with the Dodgers is that their top players which we want were in A/AA ball last year. To fit a 3-1 trade into our lineup, we need to find MLB/AAA ready guys who can take over for Hentges/Zimmer and Mercado to fit on our 40. We could trade guys like Chang and Clement but even Busch needs a bit of time at AAA before he can do that. Like I said before, Beiber seems like best fit for them and we will hold onto him until next year (depending on negotiation of extensions) and by them their players and are are more readily to fill in to our lineup to take over for our fringe guys.

I disagree with the premise that the return from the deal MUST contribute immediately.. It's a parameter that has the effect of extinguishing the Guardians chance to compete beyond 2022 by taking guys who have less talent in place of guys who are closer to being ready now....

In MLB... talent will out..

 

[petes999]

I disagree with the premise that the return from the deal MUST contribute immediately.. It's a parameter that has the effect of extinguishing the Guardians chance to compete beyond 2022 by taking guys who have less talent in place of guys who are closer to being ready now....

In MLB... talent will out..

Normally, I would agree. However, you do need to field 28 guys (26 come May) on a roster from your 40 man. So, if you get Cartaya or Pages type prospect, they are not contributing to mid-2023. The 5 Guardian guys that can easily be cut without anyone shedding a tear are ... Zimmer, Mercado, Maile, Hentges and maybe Bradley next (by July and 300 more ABs). And, 2 of these are bound to be cut already with Morris and Vargas coming off 40 man.

Thus, for a 3-1 or 4-1 trade as a Ramirez or Bieber will get from Dodgers, you need to replace someone on our 40 that is MLB ready. Maybe by June/July, Naylor/Jones can take an OF/1B, maybe Palacios can be called up for other OF role. Maybe Pilk can be a full-time reliever of Hentges.

The only thing with the Dodgers that can/would make this work (maybe not other teams) is that all their top prospects Pepoit, Busch, Cartaya, Pages, Vargas are Dec 22 Rule 5 eligible (so don't have to be rostered right now so we can keep Maile or Hentges to fill in for 2022). However, if the Guardians cannot extend Ramirez, it is not as easy of a trade for Guardians as people think.

And, I am all for cutting a Palacios or Torres (not roster him in Dec for Rule 5), if the upside in return are your top-5 team prospect types. I would go for quality over quantity now. You can always trade these guys for a Myers type return (lower level lottery pick) come November. Yet, I still prefer a Moreno and Martinez/Lopez from Toronto as they are more MLB ready.

 

[sportscoach]

Normally, I would agree. However, you do need to field 28 guys (26 come May) on a roster from your 40 man. So, if you get Cartaya or Pages type prospect, they are not contributing to mid-2023. The 5 Guardian guys that can easily be cut without anyone shedding a tear are ... Zimmer, Mercado, Maile, Hentges and maybe Bradley next (by July and 300 more ABs). And, 2 of these are bound to be cut already with Morris and Vargas coming off 40 man.

Thus, for a 3-1 or 4-1 trade as a Ramirez or Bieber will get from Dodgers, you need to replace someone on our 40 that is MLB ready. Maybe by June/July, Naylor/Jones can take an OF/1B, maybe Palacios can be called up for other OF role. Maybe Pilk can be a full-time reliever of Hentges.

The only thing with the Dodgers that can/would make this work (maybe not other teams) is that all their top prospects Pepoit, Busch, Cartaya, Pages, Vargas are Dec 22 Rule 5 eligible (so don't have to be rostered right now so we can keep Maile or Hentges to fill in for 2022). However, if the Guardians cannot extend Ramirez, it is not as easy of a trade for Guardians as people think.

And, I am all for cutting a Palacios or Torres (not roster him in Dec for Rule 5), if the upside in return are your top-5 team prospect types. I would go for quality over quantity now. You can always trade these guys for a Myers type return (lower level lottery pick) come November. Yet, I still prefer a Moreno and Martinez/Lopez from Toronto as they are more MLB ready.

We traded Lindor for two MLB guys and two longer term prospects....

I would always expect since we have a nice log jam, they arent 100% worried about getting MLB ready guys, but they need someone to replace JRam in the lineup/close to ready to replace JRam in the lineup. Also we are lucky since if we go with our current prospects, with having Arias, Gimenez Rocchio etc, we have the talent to fill SS and 3B, without to many issues, so we can go best talent. I still think Moreno and Groshans would be the targets in a JRam trade, but after that, I think we will bring in 2-3 more who arent near rule 5 eligible like we did with Greene and Wolf in the Lindor trade, so we don't have everyone coming up at the same time again.

Also I think we may try and make a move for a legit big leaguer in a different way... If we can move JRam and then somehow get the price of Reynolds down some/not include certain "close to untouchables" then we could subtract JRam and add a Reynolds, we still end up staying at a similar level of ballclub...

 

[Gson]

We traded Lindor for two MLB guys and two longer term prospects....

I would always expect since we have a nice log jam, they arent 100% worried about getting MLB ready guys, but they need someone to replace JRam in the lineup/close to ready to replace JRam in the lineup. Also we are lucky since if we go with our current prospects, with having Arias, Gimenez Rocchio etc, we have the talent to fill SS and 3B, without to many issues, so we can go best talent. I still think Moreno and Groshans would be the targets in a JRam trade, but after that, I think we will bring in 2-3 more who arent near rule 5 eligible like we did with Greene and Wolf in the Lindor trade, so we don't have everyone coming up at the same time again.

Also I think we may try and make a move for a legit big leaguer in a different way... If we can move JRam and then somehow get the price of Reynolds down some/not include certain "close to untouchables" then we could subtract JRam and add a Reynolds, we still end up staying at a similar level of ballclub...

Quite a bit a creativity would be needed.. but, it can be done.. but one if (and it's a big IF) the CleFO has determined that in their best interest, it's time to trade Jose Ramirez.. I still like the tie in to the Dodgers as a source of talent.. with/ perhaps a third team for the "last pieces" to complete a deal and fulfill the needs of the Guardians..

 

[sportscoach]

Quite a bit a creativity would be needed.. but, it can be done.. but one if (and it's a big IF) the CleFO has determined that in their best interest, it's time to trade Jose Ramirez.. I still like the tie in to the Dodgers as a source of talent.. with/ perhaps a third team for the "last pieces" to complete a deal and fulfill the needs of the Guardians..

The FO has constantly pulled off moves, we almost never exactly expected. I don't doubt the FO has a plan in place for JRam trade and if they extend him..

 

[Gson]

Rojas of the DBax was just placed in a holding pattern (not sure which IL he's going to be placed on.. but).. as he has an oblique.. couple that with Nick Ahmed's shoulder, and the left side of the DBax infield thin and in need.. just the kind of situation where a guy like Amed or Andres or Ernie or Owen or.. or.. or.. can fix what ails-em.. The DBax will no doubt look at what's out there.. and come to a decision..

As an aside.. the DBax had an up and coming OF'er that ran afoul of the law.. Kristian Robinson.. He should be over his legal problems by now.. If not..no reason to let the Browns get all the "bad ass bad boyz"... no?

 

[Gson]

Normally, .....The only thing with the Dodgers .... if the Guardians cannot extend Ramirez, a trade for Guardians:

After letting this settle for a day or three.. here is a two step trade:

Dodgers get JRam, Plesac and Oscar Mercado
Guardians get Gonsolin SP, Pepiot SP, B Miller SP, A Pages OF, G Lux OF/IF, W. Dias SS

The Guarding then flip Gonsolin, Pepiot while adding Brad Zimmer and Andres Gimenez to the Cardinals for Nolan Gorman and Ivan Herrera..

The net(s) are:
-Salary: ~ $ 10 MM reduction
-No changes needed for the 40 man roster
-One near ML Ready TOR SP (eta 2023)
-One near ML Ready C (eta 2022)
-One near ML Ready 3B (eta 2022)
-One wildcard/uber prospect SS in waiting.. (eta 2025)
-Two ML OF'ers (eta now/ML'ers)

Fixes the OF, partially fixes the catching.. replaces JRam at 3B.. doesn't touch a single top prospect.

 

[CDAV45]

After letting this settle for a day or three.. here is a two step trade:

Dodgers get JRam, Plesac and Oscar Mercado
Guardians get Gonsolin SP, Pepiot SP, B Miller SP, A Pages OF, G Lux OF/IF, W. Dias SS

The Guarding then flip Gonsolin, Pepiot while adding Brad Zimmer and Andres Gimenez to the Cardinals for Nolan Gorman and Ivan Herrera..

The net(s) are:
-Salary: ~ $ 10 MM reduction
-No changes needed for the 40 man roster
-One near ML Ready TOR SP (eta 2023)
-One near ML Ready C (eta 2022)
-One near ML Ready 3B (eta 2022)
-One wildcard/uber prospect SS in waiting.. (eta 2025)
-Two ML OF'ers (eta now/ML'ers)

Fixes the OF, partially fixes the catching.. replaces JRam at 3B.. doesn't touch a single top prospect.

JRam is getting extended dude.

 

[petes999]

JRam is getting extended dude.

Want to believe you and Bimbo but ...

won't believe anything until an offer is actually on the table.
Wife got me tix to Toronto series ... guess I will see him one way or another.

 

[CDAV45]

Want to believe you and Bimbo but ...

won't believe anything until an offer is actually on the table.
Wife got me tix to Toronto series ... guess I will see him one way or another.

If you're going to believe anyone believe Bimbo. I have no inside info and won't pretend to. I was just f'ing with Gson.

 

[Gson]

JRam is getting extended dude.

what if he's not?

 

[Gson]

Want to believe you and Bimbo but ...

won't believe anything until an offer is actually on the table.
Wife got me tix to Toronto series ... guess I will see him one way or another.

what if he's traded, but, not to Toronto?

 

[Gson]

what if he's not?

So.. no comment on the proposed deal.. a great young pitching prospect.. a solid to more than solid catcher.. two immediate ML starting OFer's, the best ML ready 3B prospect not named Jung and a wild card... AND..

BIG AND..

no more mercado or zimmer...?