Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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CDAV45

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At the end of the day.. Mark Vientos has shown himself to be nothing more than a flawed corner defender.. He carries a big bat that has given him only a slightly above average hitting tool but has a chance to be more of a power over average hitter type player.. "Pedestrian" would be the way to describe him with his only true plus potential of having a puncher's/power hitter's chance at a career in MLB. He'd be a reasonable pinch hitter on a first division club and more on a poorer team..

Soft pass on the metsie..

If he's an addition to a larger deal that saw any one of Francisco Alvarez or JT Ginn coming to the north coast, then I'm interested..
Slightly above average hitting tool? Nothing but hyperbole. "Since 2006, there are only seven players to hit 20+ home runs with a .920 or better OPS before turning 22 in Double-A. Some of the notable names Vientos shares that list with are Javier Baez, Mike Moustakas, Giancarlo Stanton, and Evan Longoria."

Defensively they started giving him reps in LF and at 1B. He became more comfortable as the season progressed and it shows in the stats. It also showed that he should not and will not stick at 3B, but neither Cleveland or the Mets need him there.

In the end the kid skipped A+ altogether and went straight to AA as a 21 yr old. He's developing some defensive versatility so that his bat can get into the lineup. He might fail as there are no guarantees with any player or prospect, but to say he has a "slightly above average hitting tool" is silly. At his age and level he is a well above average hitter with elite power.

Edited to say that the best comp I can think of is Austin Riley.
 
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Gson

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Slightly above average hitting tool? Nothing but hyperbole. "Since 2006, there are only seven players to hit 20+ home runs with a .920 or better OPS before turning 22 in Double-A. Some of the notable names Vientos shares that list with are Javier Baez, Mike Moustakas, Giancarlo Stanton, and Evan Longoria."

Defensively they started giving him reps in LF and at 1B. He became more comfortable as the season progressed and it shows in the stats. It also showed that he should not and will not stick at 3B, but neither Cleveland or the Mets need him there.

In the end the kid skipped A+ altogether and went straight to AA as a 21 yr old. He's developing some defensive versatility so that his bat can get into the lineup. He might fail as there are no guarantees with any player or prospect, but to say he has a "slightly above average hitting tool" is silly. At his age and level he is a well above average hitter with elite power.

Edited to say that the best comp I can think of is Austin Riley.
After watching some vids.. when he hits.. it goes.. but, that's the issue..when he hits.. Most of the rating systems have him as a slugger with some split issues, not severe, but he likes to hit the long ball.. and he does.. As a kid ascends through the minor league system and has more home runs than all his other extra base hits.. its a worrisome flag.. The rating systems..not one, several.. have said:

MLB has him as a 45 value hit tool..
FanGraphs has him as 30 now, 40 FV
Prospects live says 40 value hit tool.. They go on to say (from Sept 2021):

Hit: Open stance, hands high at head, high back elbow. Body upright with wide base. Simple load, small leg kick with slight hand hitch. Quick bat speed. Uppercut, creates natural loft. Good lower half drive, torque. Makes hard contact. Pull side approach, shows ability to go up the middle. Length in swing at times, leads to swing and miss tendencies. Room to grow in approach. Struggles with elite spin and elevated fastballs, better against LHP. Grade: 40

This is an above average hitter.. not much more.. & certainly not well above anything or anyone.. He's challenged defensively.. there is no hyperbole.. his versatility will be limited because he doesn't run all that well.. He's an average ball player with a notable power tool.. that's all..
 

CDAV45

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After watching some vids.. when he hits.. it goes.. but, that's the issue..when he hits.. Most of the rating systems have him as a slugger with some split issues, not severe, but he likes to hit the long ball.. and he does.. As a kid ascends through the minor league system and has more home runs than all his other extra base hits.. its a worrisome flag.. The rating systems..not one, several.. have said:

MLB has him as a 45 value hit tool..
FanGraphs has him as 30 now, 40 FV
Prospects live says 40 value hit tool.. They go on to say (from Sept 2021):

Hit: Open stance, hands high at head, high back elbow. Body upright with wide base. Simple load, small leg kick with slight hand hitch. Quick bat speed. Uppercut, creates natural loft. Good lower half drive, torque. Makes hard contact. Pull side approach, shows ability to go up the middle. Length in swing at times, leads to swing and miss tendencies. Room to grow in approach. Struggles with elite spin and elevated fastballs, better against LHP. Grade: 40

This is an above average hitter.. not much more.. & certainly not well above anything or anyone.. He's challenged defensively.. there is no hyperbole.. his versatility will be limited because he doesn't run all that well.. He's an average ball player with a notable power tool.. that's all..
That is also very good at barreling the ball up. All his peripherals improved even after skipping A+ ball. I'd guess with him just turning 22 that his development is by no means done. Forest for the trees my friend.......forest for the trees.

I did get a laugh out of "struggles with elite spin". Who in the hell doesn't? And he doesn't have a "pull side approach" either. He drives the ball out from pole to pole. I get you don't like him and I'm fine with that. I don't feel the need to convince you, but I like what I see.
 

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That is also very good at barreling the ball up. All his peripherals improved even after skipping A+ ball. I'd guess with him just turning 22 that his development is by no means done. Forest for the trees my friend.......forest for the trees.

I did get a laugh out of "struggles with elite spin". Who in the hell doesn't? And he doesn't have a "pull side approach" either. He drives the ball out from pole to pole. I get you don't like him and I'm fine with that. I don't feel the need to convince you, but I like what I see.
You and I were right about Austin Riley (how many JRam deals were posted that had him coming this way with Langeliers and another OF'er?).. we just don't agree on the Metsie..
 

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You and I were right about Austin Riley (how many JRam deals were posted that had him coming this way with Langeliers and another OF'er?).. we just don't agree on the Metsie..
I know I posted a few deals with ATL, and I'm cool with disagreeing on Vientos. We'll find out if I'm right or wrong sometime this year.
 

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If my choice is between Vientos and Yepez, its Yepez hands down.

Fangraphs quick take on Vientos:

Huge raw power, but a see ball-hit ball approach prevents him from tapping into it, and his defensive ceiling is as a below average third baseman.

Vientos certainly showed an increase in power this year, but it came with a big increase in strike outs...and his K rate has trended up. His numbers this past season were partially driven by an inflated BABIP.

On the other hand, Yepez' power also jumped significantly, but it came with a decreased K rate, that has generally trended down....the opposite of what is to be expected. And he does it without BABIP, which makes all the improvement less suspect.
 

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If my choice is between Vientos and Yepez, its Yepez hands down.

Fangraphs quick take on Vientos:

Huge raw power, but a see ball-hit ball approach prevents him from tapping into it, and his defensive ceiling is as a below average third baseman.

Vientos certainly showed an increase in power this year, but it came with a big increase in strike outs...and his K rate has trended up. His numbers this past season were partially driven by an inflated BABIP.

On the other hand, Yepez' power also jumped significantly, but it came with a decreased K rate, that has generally trended down....the opposite of what is to be expected. And he does it without BABIP, which makes all the improvement less suspect.
I'd go with Yepez too now, but he is going to have low BABIP if he keeps hitting the immense amount of fly balls that he hit last year. A true "launch angle" guy.

Fangraphs talking about Yepez maybe playing DH next year with universal DH:
Juan Yepez is an interesting option since he has no defensive value and is projected to be the group’s best hitter.

I guess he could help out at 1B but I don't like the way that sounds.
 

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This isn't an either or for me so I have no idea why you guys are making the comparison. I also wonder how Yepez performed as a 21 year old since he's about to turn 24 which makes him damn near 2 yrs older than Vientos. I already know(wink wink).

If slashing 281/352/581/933 is a "see ball hit ball" approach that prevents a hitter from "tapping into it" then count me in since Vientos smoked 25 HR in 310 AB. So about every 12 AB will have a bomb in it somewhere. Folks give Fangraphs way too much credit and any dumbass knows that exit velocity and BABIP have a relationship.

He's not going to be a 3B unless a team trades for him and keeps him there. Thing is, most of the scouting reports portray him as an average 3B. He's got good hands, a good glove, and a strong arm. He lacks range. Sounds very similar to Jhonny Peralta to me. Regardless, he'll either be a LFer or 1B IMO, and we could use both right now.
 
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While Vientos occasionally smoked a baseball, he whiffed at a high rate that has risen as he has moved up the levels. Very seldom do K rates suddenly go down when a kid gets to the majors, and the vast majority of the time they go up.

I'm not that interested in yet another defensively limited windmill.

I much prefer BA driven OBP.
 

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While Vientos occasionally smoked a baseball, he whiffed at a high rate that has risen as he has moved up the levels. Very seldom do K rates suddenly go down when a kid gets to the majors, and the vast majority of the time they go up.

I'm not that interested in yet another defensively limited windmill.

I much prefer BA driven OBP.

Yepez though actually has been lowering his SO rate as he has been moving up the ranks. I know he is older than Vientos, but I think he is the better target of the two, hence why I made a deal of someone like Tucker for Yepez and Sanchez in the past to fill in needs.
 

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Yepez ' numbers are the kind that at first glance I say, 'Those can't be right.

His power numbers have trended up, his BB rate has trended up, and his K rate has trended down...all without living on BABIP. Plus he maintains a solid batting average for a power hitter.

He has gone from being an extreme ground ball hitter, using an all fields approach, to an extreme fly ball dead pull hitter.

Wanna know who else did that? Jose Ramirez. Jose also does it without living on BABIP.

This past season Jose had an XBH every 7 at bats. Yepez had one every 6.5 ABs.

Not comparing Yepez to Jose, just pointing out that Yepez batting profile is one that looks to be maintainable at the MLB level.

Yepez is one of the very few MLB ready prospects I'd be interested in trading for.
 

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Yepez ' numbers are the kind that at first glance I say, 'Those can't be right.

His power numbers have trended up, his BB rate has trended up, and his K rate has trended down...all without living on BABIP. Plus he maintains a solid batting average for a power hitter.

He has gone from being an extreme ground ball hitter, using an all fields approach, to an extreme fly ball dead pull hitter.

Wanna know who else did that? Jose Ramirez. Jose also does it without living on BABIP.

This past season Jose had an XBH every 7 at bats. Yepez had one every 6.5 ABs.

Not comparing Yepez to Jose, just pointing out that Yepez batting profile is one that looks to be maintainable at the MLB level.

Yepez is one of the very few MLB ready prospects I'd be interested in trading for.
Interesting take on scattered hits vis^a^vis the comparative of Yepez and JRam.. their pull hitting and the results... With a good eye & the belief a hitter is going to let the ball travel while attempting to hit the ball on the ground, a pitcher would be inclined to try to bust a hitter in.. With a flyball & "pull approach" that produces wall bangers and home runs..

ML Ready or near ML Ready prospect "only contributing in 2022 or you're not interested" approach.. will never be the only way a deal is made with cleveland..

The Cardinals have a significant need for a Starting Pitcher and a SS .. they obviously do not like staying with DeJong, for whatever reason.. So a deal bringing Yepez to the North Coast can be cobbled together with someone like Rosaria/Gimenez/MIF'er Prospect.. Other interesting names in the Cardinals system include Ivan Herrera C, Josh Baez OF (deep prospect..2024/5 ready), Nolan Gorman 3B Matt Liberatore SP & mostly untouchable and Michael McGreevy P (also a deep prospect)..

thoughts?..
 

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Though I get Yepez is a decent "target" for the Guardians with the impending implementation of the universal DH, the Cards would be wise to wait and see what type of deals materials after that occurs. He profiles nicely for a job as a DH 1st/ Backup whatever 2nd.
 

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And how often is a 21 yr old done developing? He struck out 28% of the time so let's not get carried away here and try to paint a picture that Vientos is K'ing at over 30%. Yepez is 2 yrs older so one would hope that his approach would be more mature. Funny thing is that Yepez and Vientos' slashes are very similar at the same levels in 21. You prefer a BA driven OBP you say? So what's the difference between .281 and .284? Especially when the .281 hitter is 2 yrs younger and played at the same levels? Oh, and he skipped A+ ball altogether. I also like Vientos' ability to hit the ball out of any part of the park. Yepez has good power too, but it's not on Vientos' level.

I really like Yepez as well. In fact, I think there is room for both because we lack not 1, but 2 corner OFers and I don't trust Bradley to stick. Maybe Yepez is similar to JRam. If we happen to acquire him I sure as hell hope he is, but having a power bat that barrels the ball consistently is also a good thing even if he isn't as well rounded as your best hitter. Looking at the bigger picture, this is how I would go about addressing the OF and 1B needs, but I'm up in the air about C. We need one and it would be nice to have one that could hit, but with all these young pitchers coming up that can put the ball where needed, having a veteran C that calls a good game is vital. Someone like McCann might be a good target and he has a pretty good bat for a C. Ironically he is in the same organization as Vientos.

To be clear, I'm not arguing with anyone over Vientos or Yepez. If either are Guardians this coming season then I'll be happy. If I had to pick one young OFer that may be available then it wouldn't be either one of these guys. It would be Lane Thomas. I don't remember who mentioned him here, but it was a fantastic idea IMO. The Nationals are rich in OFers and lack IF and SP prospects. There may be a good match between the 2 teams, but that's another conversation.
 

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Yepez is a good prospect, but not worthy of a big package that includes a SP.

The Cards have the best defensive inf in baseball that backs up a rotation of groundball pitchers. They have no interest in Amed, and as GM, I have zero interest in trading Gimenez, who I view as our most likely long term MIF.

While we love our MIF prospects, there doesn't seem to be any true contender interested in putting a true rookie at shortstop....and some of them have prospects just as good, or better, than ours.

**********

Specific situations call for specific acquisitions. At this point in time, acquiring prospects that aren't capable of helping the Guardians this year aren't on the main shopping list. Secondary or third, pieces, yes. Targets, no.

No org can consistently contend by consistently trading for prospects and then waiting for them to develop. Thats the formula for tanking, and even tanking teams make moves to strengthen their big club when the time is right.

Houston did it. Chicago did it. Minnesota did it. Detroit is doing it. If the Guardians plan to be anything more than a fringe contender for a WC spot over the next five years, they have to do it, too.

***********

The Nats, like the Cubs and Reds, seemingly don't want to commit to any one direction.

The Nats have one of the most barren farm systems in baseball. They could use nearly every upper level prospect we have, but they don't have any MLB players available that is worth a major investment and would be a significant long term upgrade.

Bell would be a rental, Robles looks like a total bust, and Thomas doesn't look like an upgrade to me...a 4th OF for a contender, a starter for a non contender. Hes better than Zimmer and Mercado, but thats not saying much.
 

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