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Evan Mobley: 2023 All Defensive 1st Team

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Is Evan Mobley the Greatest Player of All Time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 38.1%
  • Yes

    Votes: 21 16.7%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 5.6%
  • YAAASSS!!!

    Votes: 36 28.6%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 28 22.2%

  • Total voters
    126
What is this supposed to mean? Levert is better than Mobley? Garland is as good a defender as Mobley? I love advanced stats

No. These stats are just telling us that we are overly reliant on Mobley.

Mobley has played, by far, the most minutes........and the more minutes you play, the harder and harder it is to maintain efficiency. Especially with how we are employing Evan.....making him guard 3's, 4's and 5's.

Evan is only one of (6) NBA players that has logged 2,000+ minutes and he has (by far) the best defensive metrics of that group. In the NBA, the more minutes you play, the more and more most of the defensive stats are going to skew more negatively.......as NBA players are really, really good at offense. The more you play, the more variance you remove.
 
No. These stats are just telling us that we are overly reliant on Mobley.

Mobley has played, by far, the most minutes........and the more minutes you play, the harder and harder it is to maintain efficiency. Especially with how we are employing Evan.....making him guard 3's, 4's and 5's.

Evan is only one of (6) NBA players that has logged 2,000+ minutes and he has (by far) the best defensive metrics of that group. In the NBA, the more minutes you play, the more and more most of the defensive stats are going to skew more negatively.......as NBA players are really, really good at offense. The more you play, the more variance you remove.

I’m not sure I understand. It seems like you are saying Evan would converge to the NBA average in defensive efficiency as he plays more minutes? But the Cavs are just about the best defensive team in the NBA and Evan should be a major reason for that (along with JA). So wouldn’t that show in his minutes?

I suspect this is about whatever mysterious thing was happening earlier in the year with higher opponent three point percentage when Evan was playing…whether random or not it would tend to fuck with his advanced defensive stats
 
I’m not sure I understand. It seems like you are saying Evan would converge to the NBA average in defensive efficiency as he plays more minutes? But the Cavs are just about the best defensive team in the NBA and Evan should be a major reason for that (along with JA). So wouldn’t that show in his minutes?

I suspect this is about whatever mysterious thing was happening earlier in the year with higher opponent three point percentage when Evan was playing…whether random or not it would tend to fuck with his advanced defensive stats

On defense, it looks at factors like how often the player was the nearest defender on an opponents’ shot and how often those shots went in, how many points and rebounds were scored by opponents at the defender’s position, and how often the player induced offensive fouls.

When your defense is effectively guards funneling perimeter players to Mobley, generally speaking, his numbers are going to be more affected given the criteria here.....i.e. how often the player was the nearest defender on an opponents’ shot and how often those shots went in. So if Garland flies past his man on a contest or forces him off a spot and Mobley is the help defender, he is going to get dinged here....even though it is Garland's man.

Additionally, I believe Raptor also weighs contested defensive rebounds more heavily too, something Mobley would also be taken out of more often, when challenging shots.....or being asked to float on the perimeter on switches.

I'll underscore what I have said in the past, that advanced stats shouldn't be sampled on a singular basis........especially on defense. You need to look across all of them and see what common themes emerge.
 
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Agreed....like potentially this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up in the ECF or represented the East THIS season. We have a smart team......I think that will show over a 7 game series. Also, our slow pace has us primed for what playoff basketball typically is. I know we are young, but if we can remain healthy. Nothing will surprise me.
My biggest fear as to why the Cavs won’t go far this year is because they seem to not know how to deal with physical and bully teams like the Raptors and the Sixers.

It SEEMS that every time we get bullied we shrink and by the time we try to recover it’s too late. Maybe things will be different in the playoffs, but we know that physicality is part of being successful during the playoffs and I don’t think we have demonstrated that yet.
 
That's something those in the "we shouldn't have given up Lauri!" crowd fail to understand. Mitchell brings a "toughness" to this team that was sorely lacking. It showed up in the Pacers (I think) game when he wouldn't let go of the ball, and then again of course against the thug Dillon. He's teaching these young kids how to toughen up, and long term this may be as important as what his skills provide to the team.
 
My biggest fear as to why the Cavs won’t go far this year is because they seem to not know how to deal with physical and bully teams like the Raptors and the Sixers.

It SEEMS that every time we get bullied we shrink and by the time we try to recover it’s too late. Maybe things will be different in the playoffs, but we know that physicality is part of being successful during the playoffs and I don’t think we have demonstrated that yet.
I was six rows from the floor in Philly. Seeing Embiid next to Allen or Mobley and it's obvious why he physically dominates them. Size matters.
 
I am not sure the team can't adjust to physicality. They do adjust, it is just too late sometimes. Philly they were too hyped in the first half and were way over helping. When they settled down, it was much harder for Philly to score.

We are going to see them mess up in the first half of the first game at least. They will be very antsy and look bad and inexperienced again.

Hopefully they stabilize and learn over the course of the series. I have some hope here because 2nd half adjustments are always good. So, I thin in the long haul they could do well, but I 100% a lot of nerves at least that first game. Hopefully not longer.
 
I was six rows from the floor in Philly. Seeing Embiid next to Allen or Mobley and it's obvious why he physically dominates them. Size matters.
Obviously.
But then how do you explain what Toronto did to us twice?

Simply put, we need to show that we can go toe to toe with the teams that play us very physical (like in the playoffs). And so far I don’t think we have shown it. Hopefully we come with a different mindset in the playoffs.
 
Obviously.
But then how do you explain what Toronto did to us twice?

Simply put, we need to show that we can go toe to toe with the teams that play us very physical (like in the playoffs). And so far I don’t think we have shown it. Hopefully we come with a different mindset in the playoffs.
They are also very young it will come we just have to be patient
 

Aldridge: As the NBA gets more and more skilled, ‘Tall Ball’ continues to (re)-take hold​

David Aldridge
Feb 21, 2023



Evan Mobley was disappointed.

Normally, the Cavaliers’ young big man can solve a Rubik’s Cube in less than a minute. But this night, the sides weren’t coming together as quickly as he usually does. The final time: 1 minute 16 seconds.

It was one of the few times in the second-year emerging star’s career that he hasn’t quickly solved a challenge.
Mobley didn’t make the All-Star Game this season, but he’s nonetheless centered in the NBA’s next evolution, which continues to take hold with more teams.

If we’re not back to the days when bigs like Wilt, Kareem and Shaq controlled games from the paint, we’re seeing more teams using more guys their size who, if not in possession of their low-post skills, are impactful and comfortable with the modern game.

Of course, basketball should evolve, like everything else. But the NBA in particular owes so much to the big men who made the league what it is today. From Bill Russell and Chamberlain, to Walt Bellamy and Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld and Willis Reed, Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton, Bob Lanier and Artis Gilmore, Robert Parish and Moses Malone, the league not only survived, but thrived, on the nightly battles amongst and between its biggest players. But as the game became smaller, and former players were increasingly ushered out of decision-making positions in NBA front offices, it felt as if big men were not only longer in vogue, but dismissed as having little to offer to the modern game.
But, now, what’s old is new again – even if those players are, now, often outside the paint.

“Size always matters in our game,” Kevin Durant said during Saturday’s All-Star Game media availability session. “I feel like all the biggest teams have an advantage. You’re starting to see more teams, from their point guard down to their center, (start at) 6-6, to seven feet for the center. I just think to cover more ground, you need more athletic and bigger guys, and the skill level has gone up in our league, so you need more size. It’s good for the game, I think.”
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“Tall Ball” has bucked the league’s trend toward often opting for smaller and quicker in the 3-point era. Not everyone has a Mobley, and there are still way more guards who can fill it up from deep than bigs. But the tide has started turning since the Lakers stuffed Houston’s ultra small-ball lineup in the Western Conference semifinals in 2020 in Orlando, when the Rockets didn’t have a starter taller than the 6-8 Robert Covington on the court for long stretches, allowing Anthony Davis to dominate. The Lakers crushed Houston on the glass, outrebounding them by almost 13 a game in the gentleman’s sweep.

In 2020-21, Milwaukee utilized its dual bigs – 7-2 Brook Lopez and 7-foot Giannis Antetokounmpo – in a revitalized, non-traditional attack, with Lopez’s ability to space the floor with his 3-point shooting bringing a big out of the paint. And when Mike Budenholzer utilized guards and wings down low in the “dunker’s spot” near the basket rather than another big, it gave the Greek Freak much clearer, unencumbered paths to the rim, culminating in the Bucks’ run to an NBA title. It wouldn’t have worked had Lopez not remade him game to become a credible perimeter threat.

In his first eight NBA seasons, Lopez attempted 31 total 3s. In his last six-plus seasons, through the All-Star break this year, he’s attempted 2,161.

Last season, the Cavaliers went ultra-big, playing 7-foot Lauri Markkanen at the three, the 6-11 Mobley at the four and 6-9 Jarrett Allen in the middle. Minnesota joined the revolution this year, bringing in Rudy Gobert to play center, and moving 7-foot Karl-Anthony Towns to the four, a move that has been delayed by KAT’s knee injury, suffered right after Thanksgiving.

Washington has also climbed on board the last two months, moving the 6-10 Daniel Gafford into the starting lineup at center, pushing 7-3 Kristaps Porziņģis to power forward and 6-10 Kyle Kuzma from the four to the three. Porziņģis’ size makes him a difficult matchup for defenses anywhere, but he’s an especially difficult cover at the elbow, where opposing teams often try to use wings and guards on him. He often abuses the cross-match, and has been feasting at the foul line as well, averaging more than seven free throw attempts per game since the switch.

And defensively, the Wizards haven’t suffered; they’re 12th in the league in Defensive Rating (114.0) since making the move.

Denver has the best record in the West going with the still crazy athletic 6-8 Aaron Gordon and 6-10 Michael Porter, Jr., alongside two-time league MVP Nikola Jokić, who still runs 6-11, 284… and is Nikola Jokić.

And the Magic, whose brain trust always values long and athletic, have gone loco on occasion this season, playing 7-2 Bol Bol at two guard, along with 6-10 Franz Wagner and 6-10 rookie Paolo Banchero at the wings, and 6-10, 270-pound Wendell Carter, Jr., in the middle – with Bol suspending the known laws of basketball physics on an increasingly consistent basis.

The rebirth of Tall Ball doesn’t mean low-post play is back in the game. Today’s tall wings are much more like Kuzma, who attacks off the wings and takes 3s above the break, or Miami’s Bam Adebayo — not only the Heat’s defensive anchor, but, increasingly, a go-to guy at the other end. And he’ll score from the mid-range and on floaters just as often as he does on duck-ins and dives. And when he’s aggressive offensively, Miami is good — the Heat is 22-14 so far this
season when he takes 15 or more shots.

“The game’s starting to change,” Adebayo said Saturday. “You’re starting to get 7-footers (like Jokić) who are point guards. … Going big isn’t really like, different, because everybody out there is either shooting, dribble, pass, or is one of the ones who do everything. So, I mean, it’s more talent than height. It’s just that, with the height, you can’t teach seven feet.”

Boston reached the Finals last year pairing Robert Williams and Al Horford up front, who anchored the league’s best defense the second half of the season.

“Guys are coming into the league taller and taller, but with the ability to shoot, with the ability to handle the ball, with the ability to come off of pick and rolls,” the Celtics’ Jayson Tatum said Saturday. “Evan Mobley can catch the ball off the rim and go all the way down the court. Jarrett Allen is mobile, probably doesn’t handle the ball as well, but he’s as mobile as they come as a big man. Even Bam; Bam is 6-10, whatever, but he brings the ball up the floor all the time. Kids are getting taller, and their skill development is through the roof.”

Even with Markkanen gone, and putting an All-Star season together in Utah, Cleveland’s still thrived with its remaining two bigs. Mobley is interchangeable with Allen in the Cavs’ attack. Neither is a dynamic shooter — Mobley is a ghastly .194 behind the arc so far this season. But he’s just scratching the surface of his vast potential, and the length of Mobley and Allen still makes them dangerous offensive targets for Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland.

“We just try to protect the paint, using our two bigs, and then dominate the paint on the offensive end,” Mobley said. “That’s what we really focus on. At first, (communication) was a little slow, but I feel like our chemistry has
definitely been building over time. I’ve also been playing with two bigs for most of my life growing up, playing with my brother (Isaiah, at USC) and stuff like that. So, I’m kind of used to it. Our versatility, being able to dribble and pass and playmake as well, I feel like that helps on the offensive end and defensive end.

“Sometimes I’m in the dunker, and sometimes (Allen’s) in the pick and rolls, or he’s in the corner. Sometimes I’m in the pick and roll and he’s in the dunker. It just switches off, depending on matchups.”

The Cavs never hesitated taking Mobley third in the 2021 draft, even though they’d already acquired Allen from Brooklyn in the four-team trade that sent James Harden to the Nets in 2021.

“I think what’s happening is that people are trying to find skill, and these big guys have skill,” Cavs Coach J.B. Bickerstaff said. “One of the things that we talk about as coaches a lot is, growing up, guys don’t play freelance basketball as much as they used to. But they go and they see individual trainers. So the skill level that these guys come into the (NBA) game with is possibly higher. It may take a little longer to figure out to play the game, but they have higher levels of just skill.

“So, I think that’s what you’re seeing is, you’re seeing big guys with skill. And it’s still my belief that size and skilled will beat small and skilled. Because there’s just so many ways that you can take advantage of the game.”

At the other end, increasingly, are teams like the Trail Blazers, who’ve been downsizing out of necessity since starting center Jusuf Nurkic went out with a calf injury earlier this month. And there are nights when Portland can hold its own with its collection of wildly athletic wings. But they remain wildly athletic, small wings.

“It’s funny, I was talking to my staff a week or so ago, and I was saying things
are going back to getting bigger at the four, and obviously, you’re always going to be big at the five,” Portland coach Chauncey Billups said. “I think teams that have that luxury can tinker with that, especially if you’ve got good guard play. You kind of play through your guards for the most part, anyway. They can tinker with those lineups.

“We don’t really have that luxury, but a lot of teams are starting to play big and go bigger. And it presents a lot of issues, especially because these guys are so skilled. These big guys are tall in stature, but they’re really skilled. They’ve got guard skill sets, a lot of times. That puts you in tough spots.”
 
What's weird is DPoY candidates mostly never make the all star game. That's just stupid. No wonder that game sucks so much.
 
What's weird is DPoY candidates mostly never make the all star game. That's just stupid. No wonder that game sucks so much.
I seriously think defense is as important as offense. Why doesn't everyone see this?
 

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