Ex Indians update

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macbdog

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Tyler Naquin: 1-3, HR
Joey Wendle: 2-3, HR
Yandy Diaz: 1-3
Clint Frazier: 0-3, K
Carlos Santana: 2-4, BB
Paolo Esoino: 4.1IP, 5H, 2R, 3Ks
Yan Homes: 0-4, K
 
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Tyler Naquin: 1-3, HR
Joey Wendle: 2-3, HR
Yandy Diaz: 1-3
Clint Frazier: 0-3, K
Carlos Santana: 2-4, BB
Paolo Esoino: 4.1IP, 5H, 2R, 3Ks
Yan Homes: 0-4, K
Wendle is a third baseman now. He's 30 years old and has 1,058 major league at-bats. It took him a long time to reach the majors, not becoming a regular until he was 27 when he hit .300/.789 in nearly 500 at-bats. His career line is .280/.745. He seems to be a solid, but offensively unspectacular third baseman. He has only 19 career homers and a .195 post-season average in 68 AB's.

Yandy is mostly a first baseman now, with 38 of his 49 at-bats this year at first base. In those 38 AB's he's hitting .342 with a .468 OBP. I wish we had him at first base right now instead of Bauers and Chang. But when we traded him we had Santana so we had no place to play him other than DH for the last two years.

Yandy is a career .280/.780 hitter as opposed to Wendle's .280/.745. They're nearly identical hitters. Yandy has 17 career HR's. They're both .280 singles hitters playing a corner infield position.

If Naquin stays healthy, and that's a big "if", he could have a great year hitting in that ballpark. The ball really flies there. The homer Berto hit was something like 418 feet to dead center on a ball that was on the outside corner at the knees.
 

CATS44

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When it comes to evaluating prospects, the IF attached to health is IMO the most important thing.

Organizations need to plan ahead. Somewhere on the wall in somebody's office is a chart for the next several years. In football they call it a two deep. That chart contains the projected 40 man rosters for each year. Orgs then know what positions need to be addressed down the road.

On the wall of another office is a chart that estimates revenue over the next several years and a corresponding chart of what the roster chart will cost.

A player that demonstrates the inability to stay healthy can't be counted on in the first chart, but carries a cost in the last one.

I hope Naylor has multiple years of health and high production, but if I'm running a baseball team, I wouldn't invest anything in him beyond look-see money.
 
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When it comes to evaluating prospects, the IF attached to health is IMO the most important thing.

Organizations need to plan ahead. Somewhere on the wall in somebody's office is a chart for the next several years. In football they call it a two deep. That chart contains the projected 40 man rosters for each year. Orgs then know what positions need to be addressed down the road.

On the wall of another office is a chart that estimates revenue over the next several years and a corresponding chart of what the roster chart will cost.

A player that demonstrates the inability to stay healthy can't be counted on in the first chart, but carries a cost in the last one.

I hope Naylor has multiple years of health and high production, but if I'm running a baseball team, I wouldn't invest anything in him beyond look-see money.
You mean Naquin, right?
 

sportscoach

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Wendle is a third baseman now. He's 30 years old and has 1,058 major league at-bats. It took him a long time to reach the majors, not becoming a regular until he was 27 when he hit .300/.789 in nearly 500 at-bats. His career line is .280/.745. He seems to be a solid, but offensively unspectacular third baseman. He has only 19 career homers and a .195 post-season average in 68 AB's.

Yandy is mostly a first baseman now, with 38 of his 49 at-bats this year at first base. In those 38 AB's he's hitting .342 with a .468 OBP. I wish we had him at first base right now instead of Bauers and Chang. But when we traded him we had Santana so we had no place to play him other than DH for the last two years.

Yandy is a career .280/.780 hitter as opposed to Wendle's .280/.745. They're nearly identical hitters. Yandy has 17 career HR's. They're both .280 singles hitters playing a corner infield position.

If Naquin stays healthy, and that's a big "if", he could have a great year hitting in that ballpark. The ball really flies there. The homer Berto hit was something like 418 feet to dead center on a ball that was on the outside corner at the knees.

Wendle is actually an utility guy... he's an above average 2B and 3B while he does play SS and LF as well. He plays positions as needed which is important for Cash since he moves players around... Most of his career innings are at 2B, but he's only played 3B and SS this season.
 

CATS44

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You mean Naquin, right?

Naquin and any number of very good players who can't be counted on to be available to play.

This all started for me when I was studying Leo Durocher. In an interview he said that the only player he ever saw that was as good as Willie Mays was Pete Reiser.

Reiser was an outstanding player, winning the NL batting title in 1941, but he went from being as good as Willie Mays (in the Lip's estimation) to the best player nobody has ever heard of, because he kept crashing into walls. He simply could not stay healthy.

Its why I was never a big fan of Salazar. Its one reason that I have no interest in Zimmer. Salazar was much better than Bauer five years ago, but everybody knew that Bauer would answer the bell every five days.

Its why I value Cookie over Yu Darvish. If five years ago I was building a rotation for the next five years, I could depend on Cookie's 30 some starts a year, while Id never know when and if Darvish would be able to take the ball. I love inning eaters. I love the Carlos Santanas that play every freaking day.

Owners try to tie up better young players long term...even if it means paying more for their arb years. These kind of contracts allow orgs to do long term financial planning. In some cases, cost certainty is worth paying extra.

I'd much rather have playing time certainty than not, even if it means accepting a little less upside.
 

Derek

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Naquin and any number of very good players who can't be counted on to be available to play.

This all started for me when I was studying Leo Durocher. In an interview he said that the only player he ever saw that was as good as Willie Mays was Pete Reiser.

Reiser was an outstanding player, winning the NL batting title in 1941, but he went from being as good as Willie Mays (in the Lip's estimation) to the best player nobody has ever heard of, because he kept crashing into walls. He simply could not stay healthy.

Its why I was never a big fan of Salazar. Its one reason that I have no interest in Zimmer. Salazar was much better than Bauer five years ago, but everybody knew that Bauer would answer the bell every five days.

Its why I value Cookie over Yu Darvish. If five years ago I was building a rotation for the next five years, I could depend on Cookie's 30 some starts a year, while Id never know when and if Darvish would be able to take the ball. I love inning eaters. I love the Carlos Santanas that play every freaking day.

Owners try to tie up better young players long term...even if it means paying more for their arb years. These kind of contracts allow orgs to do long term financial planning. In some cases, cost certainty is worth paying extra.

I'd much rather have playing time certainty than not, even if it means accepting a little less upside.
The only reason is he questioned is because it said Naylor in your post
 

xmasbuck

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Naquin and any number of very good players who can't be counted on to be available to play.

This all started for me when I was studying Leo Durocher. In an interview he said that the only player he ever saw that was as good as Willie Mays was Pete Reiser.

Reiser was an outstanding player, winning the NL batting title in 1941, but he went from being as good as Willie Mays (in the Lip's estimation) to the best player nobody has ever heard of, because he kept crashing into walls. He simply could not stay healthy.

Its why I was never a big fan of Salazar. Its one reason that I have no interest in Zimmer. Salazar was much better than Bauer five years ago, but everybody knew that Bauer would answer the bell every five days.

Its why I value Cookie over Yu Darvish. If five years ago I was building a rotation for the next five years, I could depend on Cookie's 30 some starts a year, while Id never know when and if Darvish would be able to take the ball. I love inning eaters. I love the Carlos Santanas that play every freaking day.

Owners try to tie up better young players long term...even if it means paying more for their arb years. These kind of contracts allow orgs to do long term financial planning. In some cases, cost certainty is worth paying extra.

I'd much rather have playing time certainty than not, even if it means accepting a little less upside.

in his 11 year career, cookie has made 195 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - in his 9 year career darvish has made 186 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - he had another season with 29 starts - even with a known result, cookie/darvish isnt supportive of your injury theory
 
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in his 11 year career, cookie has made 195 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - in his 9 year career darvish has made 186 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - he had another season with 29 starts - even with a know result, cookie/darvish isnt supportive of your injury theory
Yeah but Cookie got sent to the bullpen for a while and he also got sick. How many starts has he missed due to injury?

The thing is injuries are not that predicable. Three years into Sizemore's career was anybody suggesting we trade him? He played every day - until he turned into a 21st century Pete Reiser.

I couldn't believe how often Tristan McKenzie got hurt at an age when pitchers shouldn't be hurting themselves just throwing the ball. Supposedly the Indians have changed his mechanics to hopefully eliminate those injuries. We'll see.
 

Derek

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in his 11 year career, cookie has made 195 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - in his 9 year career darvish has made 186 starts and started 30 games in a season 3 times - he had another season with 29 starts - even with a know result, cookie/darvish isnt supportive of your injury theory
Since he became a full-time rotation member in mid-2014, Cookie has only missed time because of leukemia and being hit by line drives

ETA: Prior to his current hammy issue, of course.
 

CATS44

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Since Darvish returned from surgery in 2014, and rehabbed in 2015, these are his start totals...

17
31
22
9
8
31
12 last season.

The only time that Cookie has missed since 2014 is due to cancer and being hit with a line drive.

There is no question who has been the most durable in that span.

************

To sum extent, injuries are predictive. While you dont know when, you do know will.

Naquins likelihood of injury was off the charts before he ever got to Cleveland. A kid who could never stay healthy is a MLBer who will not stay healthy. As soon as his rookie season was over, I advocated trading him, because his value in trade would never be hire, but his value on the field would seldom be much.

Grady played so hard and recklessly, that I first mentioned Reiser as his comparison in Gradys second year. The same thing with Zimmer. They both were injuries waiting to happen.

Go back and watch clips of Lofton making a diving catch or going up against the wall. Then watch clips of Grady and Zimmer doing the same thing. Lofton slid across the ground and slithered up a wall. He was a wide reciever. Grady and Zimmer crashed into the ground and into walls like linebackers.

Eloy Jimenez' injury was predictable, as was Tatis'. Unless they become full time DHs, both are likely to have careers peppered with injuries.

I have missed on one in terms of likely health, and it was a biggie. I was certain that Eckersley wouldn't stay healthy, because his delivery was all arm and couldn't possibly hold up.

In Eck's own words...WOW....that was a mistake.
 
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