Freddie Kitchens: vaguely employed

[Triple-S]

So if we use the cliche that Dorsey is shopping for the groceries are you telling me that these groceries are 2-5 and the most undisciplined team in the league? Regardless who is coaching them?

I think this team is either 3-4 or 4-3 with competent coaching.

This feels very...small in comparison but I imagine the tone on this board would be rather different right now.

 

[inliner311]

So if we use the cliche that Dorsey is shopping for the groceries are you telling me that these groceries are 2-5 and the most undisciplined team in the league? Regardless who is coaching them?

It's not all on Dorsey but all road basically lead back to him. Was Freddie the best guy for the job or was it also that he was sort of a diamond in the rough if he worked out?

Dorsey had something working with Gregg at HC and the rest of the coaching staff in the second half of last season. His decision was to clear the room out except for Freddie and put a whole new staff together.

I always bring this up with Dorsey, he likes to tinker with units that are working just fine for no good reason. The coaching staff just feels like another one of those situations.

 

[Triplethreat]

Baker was the furthest thing from a no brainer. Was a pretty shocking pick at the time.

To back up Amherst though, and I know Triple will get mad, but we are along ways from “Baker is the guy” at this point. Just have not seen anywhere close to enough.

I don’t even disagree but I think with better coaching he would be a considerably better player at this point.

I think Baker is the guy but until we have a competent coach in place who is willing to scheme for him and coach him up and his eyes no one can say Baker is the guy right now.

We need to get the coach first and then evaluate that.

 

[godfather]

Eric Mangini, Butch Davis, fucking Gregg Williams would have this team at .500 at this point IMO.

I'm not defending Kitchens at all. I never wanted to hire the man. I think he blows. But, realistically, what is the plan?

No other HC is taking this job midway in the season. That's just not how it works. Do we want to roll with Wilks? Because he is not a good coach either.

We made bad hires, guys. We have to eat this.

If it's the case that they don't feel like they can fire him because the league will see it as not giving him long enough then I would fire both Wilks and Monken to just see if that changes anything. I think both will be gone next year regardless and maybe something clicks with Freddie and the offense or the defense and their talent to build on to something into next year.

That's probably more realistic. But I don't see any way Freddie keeps his job after the year. Unless we somehow make the playoffs. Which I think is done. I don't care how easy the schedule is. We are playing too undisciplined. You just can't be consistent as undisciplined as we are.

He's in so far over his head. I've seen a lot of bad coaches. I've never seen one in over his head as bad as Freddie.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Considering this entire board (90%+) wanted Josh Rosen. Nah, I don’t think you can say that about Baker.

 

[Triplethreat]

Point being the vocal majority was about 90% Rosen

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Point being the vocal majority was about 90% Rosen

That doesn’t matter and it’s not what you said

The point of not many wanting Baker is valid

 

[godfather]

I don't think Dorsey deserves a ton of hate. But two big blemishes thus far. Hiring Kitchens by far the worst. And the Beckham trade. I think both have been duds.

Gave up way too much for a receiver, which is first off, the most overrated position in football. You don't build a team around a superstar receiver.

Two, he's just not that great anyways. He wasn't worth remotely what we gave up. Not to mention the money we pay him.

I hate that trade so much.

 

[Stark]

Dorsey isn’t blameless, but he’s not the one out there “prepping” (in quotations because I literally don’t believe we prepped for this game at all) and game managing.

Kitchens has proven to be extremely below average at both. He’s a nice guy and apparently good in the locker room. Cool, the team is 2-5 and he manages games like a goddamn fool.

I’d fire him tonight.

 

[Sebastian]

I think OBJ is fine for what he was brought in to be: The final fuck you weapon on a good offense for a playoff team.

Right now everything is overshadowed by bad play and bad play-calling.

From Dorsey's perspective, he had reason to believe the season would have been a positive step forward, not a fucking train-wreck.

 

[godfather]

Because people can't admit he's probably made more head scratching moves than good ones.

Eh, he did make a ton of great moves though. It's only his second season in. I can only see two big blemishes so far.

The hiring of Kitchens and the OBJ trade looks like a bust. Yeah, they didn't work.

But are both going to set us back? No. Hire a good coach, have a strong draft, and shit can be just FINE!

Dorsey has made mistakes, but hasn't done anything catastrophic.

Should we fire him? Because that'd be asinine.

 

[inliner311]

That's probably more realistic. But I don't see any way Freddie keeps his job after the year. Unless we somehow make the playoffs. Which I think is done. I don't care how easy the schedule is. We are playing too undisciplined. You just can't be consistent as undisciplined as we are.

He's in so far over his head. I've seen a lot of bad coaches. I've never seen one in over his head as bad as Freddie.

I think there is a real small chance that changes make him better but I think at this point it needs to be done. Like the challenges have been bad but that is usually someone in his ear telling him what they see from their monitors.

Penalities and turnovers could also go down with new voices from the OC and DC to stress on being discipline.

The only way I can see Freddie getting fired now is if Dorsey feels like he can hire someone sitting at home to come in or someone on the current staff can be more than a interim.

 

[Triplethreat]

That doesn’t matter and it’s not what you said

The point of not many wanting Baker is valid

Well it was my point that not many wanted Baker so thanks.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Well it was my point that not many wanted Baker so thanks.

I got you. I just wanted to give the board a little bit of credit that at least 40% bet on the less bad QB (even though I was not one of them). And at least 26 people went against the grain and made better calls (at least how it looks now)

Either way Sashi should get credit for Myles and Dorsey for Baker.

 

[Urban]

Going back to the draft, Baker certainly wasn't the "no-brainer" pick at #1, especially in a draft where 4 QBs went in the Top 10. NFL GMs were certainly higher than him than this section realized, but I would guess more GMs had Darnold above Mayfield on their draft boards.

Dorsey's mistakes shouldn't be forgotten/dismissed and he isn't perfect, but I don't want a GM's ability to draft quality players to be undersold when Dorsey is the first Browns GM that appears to know what he's doing in the draft.

Moving along, I don't think RCF is a great place to gauge perception, if that makes sense. As mentioned, the board was heavily on Rosen and Rosen was the 4th QB to go. Group think runs rampant in these parts.

Edit- Going back to the above, at the moment, the Freddie Kitchens experience has been an utter disaster so far. It was a huge risk and it is going to set the franchise back unless he miraculously gets his head above water. Dorsey should absolutely catch heat for it.