Future Roster - Trade Needs

[Mott the Hoople]

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2023 Cleveland Baseball Team:

LF Daniel Johnson
2B Owen Miller
RF George Valera
DH Franmil Reyes
3B Nolan Jones
SS Tyler Freeman
1B Josh Naylor
C Bo Naylor
CF Gabriel Arias

Hey! We've got brothers in the lineup.
Obviously this is just a wild projection. We've got enough SS in the system to stock all of mlb. So I moved Arias. Interesting to note, only 3 of these players were drafted by the Indians.

 

[DCTribefan]

More Padres blog perspective on players traded to Cleveland.

While Quantrill was featured in the bullpen this year, he can quickly become a starter. This year he was posting a 2.60 ERA in 17 innings of work. Naylor is an outfielder/first baseman who never got consistent playing time on the Padres. The Indians have a desire to fill in their outfield. His bat is filled with potential, but the rest of his game needs work. Naylor will join former Padre Franmil Reyes in the outfield mix for Cleveland.

Hedges has been the starting catcher since 2017 when he took over the role. He is known as one of the top defensive catchers in the game. His bat is a glaring weakness, but August 2020 was his strongest month at the plate in a while with three home runs and a .786 OPS.

As for the prospects, Arias is a shortstop that is on the verge of becoming a five-tool player. His fielding is already top-notch, and his bat has been trending upward lately. Cantillo is a left-handed pitcher that is a symbol of the Padres’ ability to spot talent. Drafted in the 16th round of the 2017 Draft, he posted an elite 1.93 ERA in Single-A Fort Wayne during the 2019 season. Miller is a middle infielder who has a knack for making contact with the ball. If the power comes in, he can become a great player.

Padres acquire Clevinger from Indians | East Village Times

The San Diego Padres acquired Mike Clevinger from the Cleveland Indians for a haul of prospects. The Padres paid a hefty price for the right-handed pitcher. It

www.eastvillagetimes.com

 

[xmasbuck]

Naylor will join former Padre Franmil Reyes in the outfield mix for Cleveland.

Hope they know the pads better than they know the tribe.

btw, found it interesting during Antonetti's press conference when asked if they had talked to the Padres in the past about any of the players we got today - he responded - "all of them"

 

[Gson]

More Padres blog perspective on players traded to Cleveland.

While Quantrill was featured in the bullpen this year, he can quickly become a starter. This year he was posting a 2.60 ERA in 17 innings of work. Naylor is an outfielder/first baseman who never got consistent playing time on the Padres. The Indians have a desire to fill in their outfield. His bat is filled with potential, but the rest of his game needs work. Naylor will join former Padre Franmil Reyes in the outfield mix for Cleveland.

Hedges has been the starting catcher since 2017 when he took over the role. He is known as one of the top defensive catchers in the game. His bat is a glaring weakness, but August 2020 was his strongest month at the plate in a while with three home runs and a .786 OPS.

As for the prospects, Arias is a shortstop that is on the verge of becoming a five-tool player. His fielding is already top-notch, and his bat has been trending upward lately. Cantillo is a left-handed pitcher that is a symbol of the Padres’ ability to spot talent. Drafted in the 16th round of the 2017 Draft, he posted an elite 1.93 ERA in Single-A Fort Wayne during the 2019 season. Miller is a middle infielder who has a knack for making contact with the ball. If the power comes in, he can become a great player.

Padres acquire Clevinger from Indians | East Village Times

The San Diego Padres acquired Mike Clevinger from the Cleveland Indians for a haul of prospects. The Padres paid a hefty price for the right-handed pitcher. It

www.eastvillagetimes.com

Thinking about the deal and the Cantillo part of it... While I never saw him pitch in a game.. I did get to see him throw.. It was at the Fort Wayne Park (I forget it's name) which is a legitimate park.. They have some kind of market over the Right Center Field wall in the next block.. and even further away, like a half mile, is or was a starbucks.. Left center field is a little shorter than rcf.. but the ball really didn't jump out there.. Might be the sinking FB and change up that kept the hitters off balance.. It wasn't Cantillo who was pitching that game.. It was a cuban guy.. Osky Hernandez, a non-prospect, imho.. But, Cantillo was doing a bullpen session and you could see the ball popping the mitt (cloud of rosin) and the sound.. You know that sound.. it resinates all the way to your heart.... Not much real inside information there..but.. some..

Thoughts?..

 

[sportscoach]

Thinking about the deal and the Cantillo part of it... While I never saw him pitch in a game.. I did get to see him throw.. It was at the Fort Wayne Park (I forget it's name) which is a legitimate park.. They have some kind of market over the Right Center Field wall in the next block.. and even further away, like a half mile, is or was a starbucks.. Left center field is a little shorter than rcf.. but the ball really didn't jump out there.. Might be the sinking FB and change up that kept the hitters off balance.. It wasn't Cantillo who was pitching that game.. It was a cuban guy.. Osky Hernandez, a non-prospect, imho.. But, Cantillo was doing a bullpen session and you could see the ball popping the mitt (cloud of rosin) and the sound.. You know that sound.. it resinates all the way to your heart.... Not much real inside information there..but.. some..

Thoughts?..

I have been to that park, i used to live like 10 minutes from it and I worked at a restaurant near by as well! Lol I think Parkview is its Sponser. I ran into Reggie Jefferson when I worked at the restaurant.

 

[xmasbuck]

I have been to that park, i used to live like 10 minutes from it and I worked at a restaurant near by as well! Lol I think Parkview is its Sponser. I ran into Reggie Jefferson when I worked at the restaurant.

yes, its actually called Parkview Field - Parkview Health is probably in the biggest employer in the area. I work with Parkview, Lutheran, etc. over there. the locals tell the ballpark consistency wins awards as best "A" field in the country

 

[CATS44]

Returning to Tyler Freeman, and the reason I like him more than Jones.
The best five players we've had since the Grady-Pronk years have been Brantley, Kipnis, Santana, Lindor, and JRam.

Santana is and always has been an oddball hitter and is very difficult to compare to others.

Kip was a big time prospect who had a little pop even when he was young.

But the other three...Brantley Lindor and JRam...they all profiled very similar to Freeman. Bat control, hit tool, low K rates..and almost zero power.

On the other hand I can't think of one prospect weve ever had with anything close to a profile like Jones that ever turned into a productive player.

Power is great and so are walks, but if you can't make consistent contact they don't mean a hill of beans. Even Franmil didn't strike out nearly as much as Jones does at the same ages and levels.

None of this means that Jones won't become a core player or that Freeman will. But if Jones does, it will be a first for us, while Freeman would merely be following an established pattern in the Wigwam.

 

[sportscoach]

Returning to Tyler Freeman, and the reason I like him more than Jones.
The best five players we've had since the Grady-Pronk years have been Brantley, Kipnis, Santana, Lindor, and JRam.

Santana is and always has been an oddball hitter and is very difficult to compare to others.

Kip was a big time prospect who had a little pop even when he was young.

But the other three...Brantley Lindor and JRam...they all profiled very similar to Freeman. Bat control, hit tool, low K rates..and almost zero power.

On the other hand I can't think of one prospect weve ever had with anything close to a profile like Jones that ever turned into a productive player.

Power is great and so are walks, but if you can't make consistent contact they don't mean a hill of beans. Even Franmil didn't strike out nearly as much as Jones does at the same ages and levels.

None of this means that Jones won't become a core player or that Freeman will. But if Jones does, it will be a first for us, while Freeman would merely be following an established pattern in the Wigwam.

Jones to me looks like a Chisenhall who takes walks and hits for a little more power. Jones will make the pros and at the bare minimum will end up a platoon guy. I dont like his defense at the hot corner, but i am not super concerned with the SO rate mostly because he constantly goes deep into counts and that by itself can cause a little more SOs. I'm concerned with his splits and his defense since we would like an everyday guy not a platoon, but life is life.

 

[Urban]

On the other hand I can't think of one prospect weve ever had with anything close to a profile like Jones that ever turned into a productive player.

Power is great and so are walks, but if you can't make consistent contact they don't mean a hill of beans. Even Franmil didn't strike out nearly as much as Jones does at the same ages and levels.

None of this means that Jones won't become a core player or that Freeman will. But if Jones does, it will be a first for us, while Freeman would merely be following an established pattern in the Wigwam.

Who would you say were comparable prospects to Jones that were still very productive players at the AA level?

Jones's biggest issue is he is yet to hit LHP. These numbers may be slightly off as I didn't source HBP or SF, but I show a career .625 OPS vs. LHP with a 36.7% strikeout rate. .926 OPS with 24.2% vs. RHP

 

[sportscoach]

Who would you say were comparable prospects to Jones that were still very productive players at the AA level?

Jones's biggest issue is he is yet to hit LHP. These numbers may be slightly off as I didn't source HBP or SF, but I show a career .625 OPS vs. LHP with a 36.7% strikeout rate. .926 OPS with 24.2% vs. RHP

Able to get his walk rate and pitches per at bat? I think his SO rate would go down if he didnt take as many pitches as I believe he does.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

On the other hand I can't think of one prospect weve ever had with anything close to a profile like Jones that ever turned into a productive player.

Power is great and so are walks, but if you can't make consistent contact they don't mean a hill of beans.

There was a discussion on STO during a recent game about Jose Ramirez. Matt and Rick agreed that at this point in his career a position switch back to second base is not a good idea and probably would not work. They mentioned that he's put on a little weight and has had a few years to get comfortable at third base and the best thing is to just leave him alone.

If that's the way the Indians see it, then what do they do with Jones? I'm wondering if he's taking any infield practice at first base at the alternate site.

Zack Meisel had a column on Jones in The Athletic recently:

Since the Indians selected [Nolan] Jones in the second round of the 2016 amateur draft, [John] McDonald has worked closely with him on his defense at third base.

And that’s where the Indians are confident he’ll remain.

“I know that he knows he’s come a long way over these last four years,” McDonald said....“We’ve seen major strides defensively,” Indians general manager Mike Chernoff said. “We feel like he’s a really good defender over there...This is a kid with a big future in front of him.” - Zack Meisel, The Athletic

Reliever Jared Robinson...has had a front-row seat to watch [Nolan] Jones the past two seasons. Robinson has marveled at Jones’ ability to resist chasing pitches outside the strike zone.

“He’s that cobra, that mamba,” Robinson said. “You never know when he’s going to strike. He’s not up there swinging at crap in the dirt. He can hit to all fields. He’s not just a pull hitter who’s trying to smack a home run every time.” - Zack Meisel, The Athletic

Ramirez is under team control through the 2023 season at $9M, $11M, and $13 million the next three years, so he will be a tremendous value if he continues at his current level of production. I expect he'll be traded after the 2022 season at age 29 to save the $13 million and to get a haul of prospects. If Jones comes on strong it could even happen before that. We just traded Clev with over two years remaining when Civale, Plesac, and McKenzie proved they were ready to play up here.

What kind of package could we get for two years of Ramirez at age 29 and 30 at a total cost of only $24 million? If they are confident Jones can step in and succeed at third base I could see them moving Hosey after next season.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2023 Cleveland Baseball Team:

LF Daniel Johnson
2B Owen Miller
RF George Valera
DH Franmil Reyes
3B Nolan Jones
SS Tyler Freeman
1B Josh Naylor
C Bo Naylor
CF Gabriel Arias

Hey! We've got brothers in the lineup.
Obviously this is just a wild projection. We've got enough SS in the system to stock all of mlb. So I moved Arias. Interesting to note, only 3 of these players were drafted by the Indians.

I like how you omitted the word "Indians". Obviously you're expecting a name change.

I'm thinking Mercado in center. Arias is reportedly an excellent defensive shortstop so I think it will be between him and Freeman at SS. MLB.com has three shortstops listed in the top seven prospects; Freeman (2nd), Arias (5th), and Rocchio (7th) with arrival years of 2021, 2022, and 2023 respectively. There's also recent first round pick Carson Tucker, but he's only 18.

 

[CDAV45]

Ramirez is under team control through the 2023 season at $9M, $11M, and $13 million the next three years, so he will be a tremendous value if he continues at his current level of production. I expect he'll be traded after the 2022 season at age 29 to save the $13 million and to get a haul of prospects. If Jones comes on strong it could even happen before that. We just traded Clev with over two years remaining when Civale, Plesac, and McKenzie proved they were ready to play up here.

What kind of package could we get for two years of Ramirez at age 29 and 30 at a total cost of only $24 million? If they are confident Jones can step in and succeed at third base I could see them moving Hosey after next season.

I'll go ahead and predict that Ramirez will be dealt after the 2021 season, and here's why:
1. They'll be able to extrapolate more value from him.
2. Nolan Jones may be ready to take over 3B.
3. Miller, Freeman, Bracho, Rocchio, or Arias may be able to play 3B if Jones is doesn't stick.
4. We have yet to see what is returned from the Lindor trade.
5. They can reduce payroll while keeping a very competitive team, and at the same time infuse more talent.

Here's what I'm guessing with what we currently have, which will certainly be influenced by Lindor and Ramirez trades.
LF - Valera
CF - Mercado
RF - Johnson
3B - Jones
SS - Arias
2B - Rocchio
1B - Naylor
C - Naylor
UIF - Freeman
DH - Reyes

Rotation:
1 - Bieber
2 - Plesac
3 - McKenzie
4 - Civale
5 - Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Moss, Allen, or Torres(Ridiculously deep and I didn't even name all the possibilities)

BP:
Clase
Karinchak
Gose
Maton
Hill
and a few that couldn't break the rotation

The MIF depth is ridiculous with Arias, Freeman, Miller, Rocchio, Bracho, Rodriguez, Tucker, Miller, Tolentino, Valdes, and even Tena. Not a single one of these prospects is viewed as roster filler. They are all quality MIF prospects.

The SP depth is also deep with Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Torres, Allen, and Moss. Thing is the rotation in 2023 is 4/5 full. Obviously there can be injuries and/or poor performance, but I highly doubt that poor performance will factor much as all of Bieber, Plesac, McKenzie, and Civale control the ball very well.

I can't even imagine what will be added with the trades of Lindor and Ramirez. We're talking 2 of the best players in the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see more interest in Ramirez than Lindor due to his inexpensive contract. Whatever the professional baseball team in Cleveland is named, I think they are going to be very competitive over the next 10+ seasons. There might be another dynasty like the 90's that comes with a WS or 2 due to the pitching depth/talent.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I'll go ahead and predict that Ramirez will be dealt after the 2021 season, and here's why:
1. They'll be able to extrapolate more value from him.
2. Nolan Jones may be ready to take over 3B.
3. Miller, Freeman, Bracho, Rocchio, or Arias may be able to play 3B if Jones is doesn't stick.
4. We have yet to see what is returned from the Lindor trade.
5. They can reduce payroll while keeping a very competitive team, and at the same time infuse more talent.

Here's what I'm guessing with what we currently have, which will certainly be influenced by Lindor and Ramirez trades.
LF - Valera
CF - Mercado
RF - Johnson
3B - Jones
SS - Arias
2B - Rocchio
1B - Naylor
C - Naylor
UIF - Freeman
DH - Reyes

Rotation:
1 - Bieber
2 - Plesac
3 - McKenzie
4 - Civale
5 - Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Moss, Allen, or Torres(Ridiculously deep and I didn't even name all the possibilities)

BP:
Clase
Karinchak
Gose
Maton
Hill
and a few that couldn't break the rotation

The MIF depth is ridiculous with Arias, Freeman, Miller, Rocchio, Bracho, Rodriguez, Tucker, Miller, Tolentino, Valdes, and even Tena. Not a single one of these prospects is viewed as roster filler. They are all quality MIF prospects.

The SP depth is also deep with Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Torres, Allen, and Moss. Thing is the rotation in 2023 is 4/5 full. Obviously there can be injuries and/or poor performance, but I highly doubt that poor performance will factor much as all of Bieber, Plesac, McKenzie, and Civale control the ball very well.

I can't even imagine what will be added with the trades of Lindor and Ramirez. We're talking 2 of the best players in the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see more interest in Ramirez than Lindor due to his inexpensive contract. Whatever the professional baseball team in Cleveland is named, I think they are going to be very competitive over the next 10+ seasons. There might be another dynasty like the 90's that comes with a WS or 2 due to the pitching depth/talent.

Yep, the future looks bright as there are multiple candidates at every position not to mention another haul coming from the Lindor trade. I agree that the timing of the Ramirez trade will depend on the development of Jones or somebody else that gets moved to third base.

We need to have a minor league season next year to give Jones a chance to be finished off.

What happened to Carrasco? He'll still be under contract and I don't know if he's tradable at his age and salary. I'm thinking he'll go back to the bullpen as soon as the next young starter emerges. I notice you also have Cimber leaving, probably as a sweetener in a trade. Naquin will be in his third year of arbitration in 2021 and be 31. I assume you have him leaving as well.

The only concern I have is that we don't develop any star players. Some of these guys may turn into the next Jake Bauers, Bradley Zimmer, or Greg Allen. But there are so many good prospects we have to assume by the law of averages that some quality players will emerge. But we only have one top 100 guy (Jones) and some franchises have 3 or 4.

In the Lindor and Ramirez trades I would attempt to get more quality and less quantity. We have enough quantity already.

 

[Gson]

I'll go ahead and predict that Ramirez will be dealt after the 2021 season, and here's why:
1. They'll be able to extrapolate more value from him.
2. Nolan Jones may be ready to take over 3B.
3. Miller, Freeman, Bracho, Rocchio, or Arias may be able to play 3B if Jones is doesn't stick.
4. We have yet to see what is returned from the Lindor trade.
5. They can reduce payroll while keeping a very competitive team, and at the same time infuse more talent.

Here's what I'm guessing with what we currently have, which will certainly be influenced by Lindor and Ramirez trades.
LF - Valera
CF - Mercado
RF - Johnson
3B - Jones
SS - Arias
2B - Rocchio
1B - Naylor
C - Naylor
UIF - Freeman
DH - Reyes

Rotation:
1 - Bieber
2 - Plesac
3 - McKenzie
4 - Civale
5 - Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Moss, Allen, or Torres(Ridiculously deep and I didn't even name all the possibilities)

BP:
Clase
Karinchak
Gose
Maton
Hill
and a few that couldn't break the rotation

The MIF depth is ridiculous with Arias, Freeman, Miller, Rocchio, Bracho, Rodriguez, Tucker, Miller, Tolentino, Valdes, and even Tena. Not a single one of these prospects is viewed as roster filler. They are all quality MIF prospects.

The SP depth is also deep with Hankins, Cantillo, Espino, Mejia, Hentges, Oviedo, Vargas, Torres, Allen, and Moss. Thing is the rotation in 2023 is 4/5 full. Obviously there can be injuries and/or poor performance, but I highly doubt that poor performance will factor much as all of Bieber, Plesac, McKenzie, and Civale control the ball very well.

I can't even imagine what will be added with the trades of Lindor and Ramirez. We're talking 2 of the best players in the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see more interest in Ramirez than Lindor due to his inexpensive contract. Whatever the professional baseball team in Cleveland is named, I think they are going to be very competitive over the next 10+ seasons. There might be another dynasty like the 90's that comes with a WS or 2 due to the pitching depth/talent.

There will also be one or two (depending on if this is for the 2021 & 2022 season included in this projection) drafts and international signing events.. The Indians have made it a point to draft by premium position and pitching w/ BPA in those spots as their priority. (they also seem to draft a C as rule each draft) In the next draft, more than 2 of 5 of the BPA's will be outfielders.. (like Fabian, Bishop McClain, Reed Cowser Lawler and Wilson for 2021 as an example) Look for the Indians to draft pitching and outfielders or guys who can become outfielders with their top picks.. The 2021 draft will not be this 5 round "sawed off" version. There will be a minimum of 20 rounds..

Adding two to four top/Blue chip talents to our already deep farm system..is only going to make the Indians that much more relevant to the competitiveness of the club..

Btw..Guys like Vargas, Espino, Burns and Torres are more likely to become RP's because of their talent level, health/durability and or stuff this log jam.. The returns for guys like Lindor and/or Ramirez..aside..

Thoughts?