Get Excited Somewhere Else: John Dorsey

[Phills14]

If I were a reporter in the room at the presser today I would ask Dorsey something along the lines of...

"Welcome to Cleveland John. With the constant instability of the Cleveland Browns under the leadership of Jimmy Haslam, why did you accept this job? We all understand on paper why you did; the team has young players, cap room, future picks and you were given the ability to control the football organization. However; Mr Haslam has owned the team since the 2013 season and in those 4 seasons he has installed 3 different front office regimes with you now the 4th and 3 different head coaches. The simple fact is, no one has survived to see their vision come close to playing out. Why do you believe your stay here in Cleveland will be any different than those who were not afforded the time?"

 

[CBBI]

I really think Sashi (and despite what he has told Mary Kay after the fact, Hue WAS on board with the decision) only made one truly unforgivable mistake during his tenure and that is completely botching the Wentz evaluation.

That was bungled from the top down. Blame ownership for signing off on the trade. Blame DePodesta for publicly commenting on Wentz. Blame Hue for not being sold on him and ultimately blame Sashi for being the one that executed the trade down.

If you think he deserved to be let go for that move alone, so be it. I personally don’t agree, but the Browns had a chance to draft a franchise QB on his watch and didn’t and that is enough grounds for someone to lose their job.

Everything else Sashi did was either totally fine or at least justifiable, including the free agency decisions right when he took over and passing on Watson.

Admittedly, the McCarron trade botch was embarassing, but whether it was on purpose or on accident it was better for the Browns that it didn’t happen.

 

[Binkster]

So why is he getting hyped up? I don’t get it. This draft history is barely a notch above Farmer’s

Aaron Rodgers, Marcus Peters, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, etc.

He didn’t have anywhere near the bounty of picks Farmer blew - especially in the top rounds. Oh and he has a Super Bowl ring.

 

[The Voice]

Dont think I ever said that, but it is what it is. Talking about how everything looks great when you are historically bad is, well, stupid. Sashi would tell you right now that their record wasn't good enough. That combined with his and the organization's ineptitude in things like, um, trades (botched) and missing on franchise talent (Wentz, Watson) in favor of lesser players, got him canned. For the umpteenth time, Hue should have gone with him, but I don't own the team.

Like I said in the other thread, people were fooled into believing this team has to go damn near winless for three years and "tank" for top picks. It just isn't the case, not in my eyes.

You honestly believe Sashi botched the AJ trade? He completed 17 trades before that. You think a lawyer would botch paperwork?

No, he saved the fan base from a dumb trade that hue convinced haslam to do. Maybe in hindsight Sashi should have let the trade go through and let haslam see hue for what he really was.


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[ajz20]

I think people on message boards forgot that winning a game in two years is really bad for buisssness. Empty stadium, season ticket holders telling reps I am out, sponsors not renewing, radio and tv ratings down. You are viewed as the laughing stock of pro sports. On top of that the starting qbs have been rg3, Kessler, Hogan, and kizer. Agin if you are doing franchise mode in Madden you can just simulate the first three years of a total rebuild and none of this matters. But the reality is 5 year rebuilds are very difficult to pull off unless you get your young qb right away.

 

[Chris]

You honestly believe Sashi botched the AJ trade? He completed 17 trades before that. You think a lawyer would botch paperwork?

No, he saved the fan base from a dumb trade that hue convinced haslam to do. Maybe in hindsight Sashi should have let the trade go through and let haslam see hue for what he really was.


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So Hue was setting up trades and Sashi sabotaging them as some hero to the fans?

I dunno man. Maybe, maybe not, but I’m not going to argue over hypotheticals.

 

[The Voice]

I really think Sashi (and despite what he has told Mary Kay after the fact, Hue WAS on board with the decision) only made one truly unforgivable mistake during his tenure and that is completely botching the Wentz evaluation.

That was bungled from the top down. Blame ownership for signing off on the trade. Blame DePodesta for publicly commenting on Wentz. Blame Hue for not being sold on him and ultimately blame Sashi for being the one that executed the trade down.

If you think he deserved to be let go for that move alone, so be it. I personally don’t agree, but the Browns had a chance to draft a franchise QB on his watch and didn’t and that is enough grounds for someone to lose their job.

Everything else Sashi did was either totally fine or at least justifiable, including the free agency decisions right when he took over and passing on Watson.

Admittedly, the McCarron trade botch was embarassing, but whether it was on purpose or on accident it was better for the Browns that it didn’t happen.

It depends what was said to haslam in the back rooms about tanking. If Sashi told haslam he was going to tank for the first 2 years, then I disagree. You don't take a top qb prospect if you're trying to lose.


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[The Voice]

So Hue was setting up trades and Sashi sabotaging them as some hero to the fans?

I dunno man. Maybe, maybe not, but I’m not going to argue over hypotheticals.

It's been pretty much confirmed that AJ was Hue's guy and there was infighting in the front office about what to give up for AJ. Haslam stepped in and said to do the trade.


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[CBBI]

I still think Sashi absolutely botched the McCarron trade intentionally.

I’m surprised he wasn’t fired that day for insubordination to be honest.

 

[MoFlo]

I think people on message boards forgot that winning a game in two years is really bad for buisssness. Empty stadium, season ticket holders telling reps I am out, sponsors not renewing, radio and tv ratings down. You are viewed as the laughing stock of pro sports. On top of that the starting qbs have been rg3, Kessler, Hogan, and kizer. Agin if you are doing franchise mode in Madden you can just simulate the first three years of a total rebuild and none of this matters. But the reality is 5 year rebuilds are very difficult to pull off unless you get your young qb right away.

So how do you sell the fan base on keeping the head coach responsible for going 1-27?

Browns fans can be called a lot, but stupid about football is not one of them.

Haslam could have sold them on keeping Sashi and adding to the FO because browns fans can notice the talent on D.

However, how do you tell that same fan base that can see multiple players being misused, the coach making boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision, etc, on keeping said head coach after going 1-27?

 

[The Voice]

So how do you sell the fan base on keeping the head coach responsible for going 1-27?

Browns fans can be called a lot, but stupid about football is not one of them.

Haslam could have sold them on keeping Sashi and adding to the FO because browns fans can notice the talent on D.

However, how do you tell that same fan base that can see multiple players being misused, the coach making boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision, etc, on keeping said head coach after going 1-27?

By lying and the media will fall in line. They never ask the tough questions. You'll have Mary Kay out there ask a softball question like if John Dorsey likes the cavs.


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[Matches]

It's hard for me to asses drafting success because I've only ever analyzed the Browns and we have been so bad at it that I'm not sure if I would recognize good drafting if it was staring me in the face. Also I don't follow the Chiefs at all so I'm not really sure how to grade their players. But the fact is that a good many of the guys Dorsey has drafted are starting for them, and they have not been drafting in particularly high places. In fact in the first 3 rounds (which are the only rounds I really care about - my philosophy is you neither get much blame for missing day 3 picks when they miss, nor credit for passing a guy 3 times when he turns out great. Day 3 shouldn't be completely discounted but quite frankly I can't be bothered to look that deep into drafts where the majority of players never amount to anything.

But the guy made 11 picks in rounds 1-3 (not counting 2017) and made at most 3 active misses. Eric Fisher at 1 overall is one of the borderline misses, although he's started every year for them and that draft was dreadful. Philip Gaines hasn't done much but was a 3rd round pick and is still on the team so he's a non-hit but I don't really call it a miss. The only absolute miss in my eyes is 3rd rounder Knile Davis who knocked around for a bit and is now out of the league.


(The grading scale is -2 for complete and utter busts and +2 for, you know, the opposite. Slot taken counts, so you flame out of a league as a 3rd rounder it's not as bad a pick as flaming out as a 22nd overall quarterback or 9th overall cornerback)

 

[Triplethreat]

"Now, to be fair, it’s not like John Dorsey has struck out all over the place. In fact, I’ll let you know right now that this list didn’t present me with a lot of options. Of the 32 players Dorsey has selected in four drafts, only 10 are not currently on the roster. For a comparison, the Patriots only have 18 of their 36 picks through that same time period still on the roster."

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If I were a reporter in the room at the presser today I would ask Dorsey something along the lines of...

"Welcome to Cleveland John. With the constant instability of the Cleveland Browns under the leadership of Jimmy Haslam, why did you accept this job? We all understand on paper why you did; the team has young players, cap room, future picks and you were given the ability to control the football organization. However; Mr Haslam has owned the team since the 2013 season and in those 4 seasons he has installed 3 different front office regimes with you now the 4th and 3 different head coaches. The simple fact is, no one has survived to see their vision come close to playing out. Why do you believe your stay here in Cleveland will be any different than those who were not afforded the time?"

Well Tony, that would probably go over as well as that first question you asked Gregg Williams.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I still think Sashi absolutely botched the McCarron trade intentionally.

I’m surprised he wasn’t fired that day for insubordination to be honest.

As much as I hate the firing, I couldn't have disagreed if Jimmy had done that.

But it was a stupid trade.