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Get Excited Somewhere Else: John Dorsey

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@Randolphkeys, you think he'd trade Stafford for Baker straight up?

That is if Baker suddenly declines and it becomes obvious the Browns need to move on?
 
Sebastian said:
@Randolphkeys, you think he'd trade Stafford for Baker straight up?

That is if Baker suddenly declines and it becomes obvious the Browns need to move on?
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Oh Lord, that pokes the whole beehive.

Stafford wouldn't be able to run the offense I've seen the Browns running, and Mayfield wouldn't look good being a pure dropback, empty backfield gunslinger like Stafford. I don't think this would be the type of move the two teams would want to make at all.

But when I see people freaking out about the cap and paying the veterans, and I see people freaking out about younger picks like Greedy that may not pan out... that's where a trade with Dorsey could really help the Browns.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Oh Lord, that pokes the whole beehive.

Stafford wouldn't be able to run the offense I've seen the Browns running, and Mayfield wouldn't look good being a pure dropback, empty backfield gunslinger like Stafford. I don't think this would be the type of move the two teams would want to make at all.

But when I see people freaking out about the cap and paying the veterans, and I see people freaking out about younger picks like Greedy that may not pan out... that's where a trade with Dorsey could really help the Browns.
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It does poke the beehive.

One adapts the offense to the QB. Browns would not have a problem with Stafford back there. Coach Stef would be ecstatic. Probably a little less run heavy, but perhaps OBJ becomes worthwhile again. Behind that line, whoo boy. 35+ TDs.

Meanwhile, the Lions would have to completely tear down that offense. But they have to do that anyway.

They should totally trade Golladay to the Browns.

Stafford/Golladay/Hockenson for Baker/OBJ/Njoku. Do you say no?

Hee hee!

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I think Dorsey was a clown, but at the time, who were the other serious GM candidates?
I am saying that although we had draft capital, we just sucked. We had a 2 decade stench on us and Haslam as the shady business owner. We had free agents and agents openly shitting on us.
So I don’t really think Dorsey was good, especially the part about how disfunctional and toxic the environment became (didnt Dorsey throw the OC’s playbook in the trash or some shit?!?), I just think that where we were, at that time, we didn’t have a lot of choices.
is that even right? I can’t remember how it all went down.
 
natedagg said:
I think Dorsey was a clown, but at the time, who were the other serious GM candidates?
I am saying that although we had draft capital, we just sucked. We had a 2 decade stench on us and Haslam as the shady business owner. We had free agents and agents openly shitting on us.
So I don’t really think Dorsey was good, especially the part about how disfunctional and toxic the environment became (didnt Dorsey throw the OC’s playbook in the trash or some shit?!?), I just think that where we were, at that time, we didn’t have a lot of choices.
is that even right? I can’t remember how it all went down.
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Actually he threw a large binder full of analytical data right in the can after it was handed to him
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I think using the example of Chubb after Corbett just shows that Dorsey didn't know Chubb would turn into this He wasn't omniscient or clairvoyant. He just made a good pick. It's good to hit a pick out of the park like that. But I get wary when people try to use that as an example that Dorsey, as the supreme talent evaluator, knew the kind of player Chubb would turn into today. He didn't.
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I guess this is the part I disagree with. No one is omniscient or clairvoyant and by this logic, I feel like you could qualify or knock any Pro Bowl player taken after the 3rd Round, right? If GM knew this prospect was going to turn into a Pro Bowl caliber guy, why didn't he take him in the 2nd round?

In the same draft, the Ravens took Mark Andrews in the 3rd-86th overall. Andrews is now arguably a Top 5 TE, certainly Top 10. I think we'd all agree that turned out to be a great pick. Upon a closer look, the Ravens took a different TE earlier in the draft 2nd TE (Hayden Hurst 1-25) and they could've taken Andrews at 3-83, but took Orlando Brown instead. Does that make you think less of the pick? I suppose it's fair to, but I guess I just look at it as a hit or a miss. And Andrews was a big hit considering his draft position.
 
Urban said:
I guess this is the part I disagree with. No one is omniscient or clairvoyant and by this logic, I feel like you could qualify or knock any Pro Bowl player taken after the 3rd Round, right? If GM knew this prospect was going to turn into a Pro Bowl caliber guy, why didn't he take him in the 2nd round?

In the same draft, the Ravens took Mark Andrews in the 3rd-86th overall. Andrews is now arguably a Top 5 TE, certainly Top 10. I think we'd all agree that turned out to be a great pick. Upon a closer look, the Ravens took a different TE earlier in the draft 2nd TE (Hayden Hurst 1-25) and they could've taken Andrews at 3-83, but took Orlando Brown instead. Does that make you think less of the pick? I suppose it's fair to, but I guess I just look at it as a hit or a miss. And Andrews was a big hit considering his draft position.
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If you look at those picks realistically, you're saying "Yeah, the GM took a shot here and it panned out." That's a good thing, and I'm good with that logic.

I just have an issue with "See? He knew Chubb was the best runner in the NFL! Dude's a brilliant talent evaluator! You can't let that go!"

I'm not saying you're making either of those claims. I just want to head off the second before it comes to fruition.

There's also something to be said about the differences of getting one shot per round, versus having two picks at 33 and 35.
 
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shoes22 said:
I think in light of this OBJ saga, Dorsey’s tenure in Cleveland was extremely overrated. Overall he did more bad than good, imo.
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When you factor in how down (justified or not) a lot of people are on Mayfield and Ward right now, Dorsey's tenure actually looks like massive bust given what he inherited from a cap space and draft picks perspective.
 
shoes22 said:
I think in light of this OBJ saga, Dorsey’s tenure in Cleveland was extremely overrated. Overall he did more bad than good, imo.
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Two top 5 picks in an almost can’t miss draft class and Nick Chubb (thanks sashi) otherwise he left a lot to be desired. He, like just about almost every other NFL GM, was replacement level.
 
CBBI said:
When you factor in how down (justified or not) a lot of people are on Mayfield and Ward right now, Dorsey's tenure actually looks like massive bust given what he inherited from a cap space and draft picks perspective.
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Ward is a great player. He just can't stay healthy, and I'm not sure that's something that could have been known when he was drafted. I don't really follow college football. Did he have a history of injuries there as well? A quick glance at his NFL.com draft profile shows that it doesn't mention any durability concerns.

Baker is more of a question mark, but considering most of the board seemed to want Rosen or Darnold, we at least somewhat dodged those bullets.
 
Ward is a great player. He just can't stay healthy, and I'm not sure that's something that could have been known when he was drafted. I don't really follow college football. Did he have a history of injuries there as well? A quick glance at his NFL.com draft profile shows that it doesn't mention any durability concerns.
Jack Brickman said:
Baker is more of a question mark, but considering most of the board seemed to want Rosen or Darnold, we at least somewhat dodged those bullets.
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I’m ashamed to admit I wanted Rosen but Baker was my #2. I did think Lamar had the highest ceiling but thought he was a project QB. Part of me still holds some Rosen truther status.
 
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