HOF 2022 ballot

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
32,521
Reaction score
59,407
Points
148
Your grandson asks why players like Bonds, Clemens, and Rose are not included. Even though the majority of voters voted for them. Just not 75% of them. Good luck explaining that.
"They cheated. They took drugs that gave them an advantage over other players who didn't take those drugs."

I don't think it's that hard to explain. May even be a decent lesson somewhere in there.
 

Lee

Gold Star Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
37,926
Reaction score
55,451
Points
148
"They cheated. They took drugs that gave them an advantage over other players who didn't take those drugs."

I don't think it's that hard to explain. May even be a decent lesson somewhere in there.

75% took PEDS, Baseball purposely didnt test to wink wink nudge nudge and get fans back to baseball with homeruns.

Its disingenuous, it's hypocritical, its ridiculous, but its on brand. Pete Rose is out, but being a racist pig like Ty Cobb is ok.

Baseball is losing fans and they dont know why. Take a look at things like your out of touch HOF vote. Yeah, baseball needs to get over themselves before the slip below 3rd in fans.
 
Last edited:

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
32,521
Reaction score
59,407
Points
148
75% too PEDS, Baseball purposely didnt test to wink wink nudge nudge and get fans back to baseball with homeruns.

Its disengenious, it hypocrital, its ridiculous, but its on brand. Pete Rose is out, but being a racist pig like Ty Cobb is ok.

Baseball is losing fans and they dont know why. Take a look at things like your out of touch HOF vote. Yeah, baseball needs to get over themselves before the slip below 3rd in fans.

I don't think there are many people who are baseball fans who attend games but who are suddenly not going to attend because Bonds didn't get in the HOF. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. I think the "losing fans" thing is happening less because current fans are no longer fans, but that young fans are not replacing the old ones. And the young fans who are potential baseball fans don't really care about some group of guys who are no longer playing, and don't know enough about them to care whether they got in the HOF or not.

Drug testing is a term and condition of employment. MLB could not legally implement that testing unilaterally. Commissioner Pete Ueberroth brought it up way back in 1985, but the MLBPA shot it down. The only reason the Players Association eventually agreed to effective testing was because Congress was threatening to pass legislation, and that happened only after the whole BALCO thing went public.
 
Last edited:

sportscoach

RD's Guardians PR Man!
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
17,449
Reaction score
7,892
Points
113
Schilling not getting in is a joke and Hudson being off the voting already shows they aren't even willing to adapt to the modern era of SP numbers... I'm not saying he had to get in per se but he was top 5ish in wins in the last twenty years, which I guess means nothing to them... Hopefully CC gets in cause he has the most wins by anyone during that era.
 

The Oi

Ahhhh chachachacha
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
49,065
Reaction score
72,309
Points
148
75% too PEDS, Baseball purposely didnt test to wink wink nudge nudge and get fans back to baseball with homeruns.

Its disengenious, it hypocrital, its ridiculous, but its on brand. Pete Rose is out, but being a racist pig like Ty Cobb is ok.

Baseball is losing fans and they dont know why. Take a look at things like your out of touch HOF vote. Yeah, baseball needs to get over themselves before the slip below 3rd in fans.
1) Being a racist pig isn’t something that should be keeping people out of sports Hall of Fames in my opinion. I very much dislike racists. I also very much dislike applying off-field issues to determine whether someone makes a Hall, unless you want to publish a list of specific behaviors that eliminate people.

2) Many of the things that have been said about Ty Cobb have been proven very unlikely to be true, including that he was racist!
 

macbdog

Resident Luddite
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
14,983
Reaction score
12,098
Points
123
75% too PEDS, Baseball purposely didnt test to wink wink nudge nudge and get fans back to baseball with homeruns.

Its disengenious, it hypocrital, its ridiculous, but its on brand. Pete Rose is out, but being a racist pig like Ty Cobb is ok.

Baseball is losing fans and they dont know why. Take a look at things like your out of touch HOF vote. Yeah, baseball needs to get over themselves before the slip below 3rd in fans.
They were testing when each of them got caught. Barry and Roger purposefully took something designed to evade the tests. Manny just kept juicing and got caught. ARod also went to lengths to hide his cheating. I don't have much sympathy for them. And yes, had none of them taken anything, they each probably make the Hall anyway- but imo that makes it that much more pathetic, these men juiced purely for their ego.

Now, should they remain out indefinitely? I don't think so. Barry turned into a video game player and showed imo the peak of a hitter. Manny was Manny. Roger dominated in two different decades. ARod was one of the most complete players ever. But I do think an appropriate punishment for those caught is no special enshrinement day. And having to wait. The thing is, I think these same guys have the kind of ego that they still tell the HOF to pound salt even if they get enshrined, especially with restrictions. So I am also a little cool with letting these guys wait until a committee in 20-30 years decides to put them in. In the end, I think the HOFs decision to let time pass is probably the best way to handle it, and yes, an appropriate punishment for embarrassing the game- which these guys did, whether they shoved that needle in their ass with MLBs help or not.
 

macbdog

Resident Luddite
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
14,983
Reaction score
12,098
Points
123
1) Being a racist pig isn’t something that should be keeping people out of sports Hall of Fames in my opinion. I very much dislike racists. I also very much dislike applying off-field issues to determine whether someone makes a Hall, unless you want to publish a list of specific behaviors that eliminate people.

2) Many of the things that have been said about Ty Cobb have been proven very unlikely to be true, including that he was racist!
Oh Cobb was an asshole, and I he was probably still racist especially by today's standards, but yes the view of him as some raging troll of anger and hate is probably exaggerated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
32,521
Reaction score
59,407
Points
148
They were testing when each of them got caught. Barry and Roger purposefully took something designed to evade the tests. Manny just kept juicing and got caught. ARod also went to lengths to hide his cheating. I don't have much sympathy for them. And yes, had none of them taken anything, they each probably make the Hall anyway- but imo that makes it that much more pathetic, these men juiced purely for their ego.

Now, should they remain out indefinitely? I don't think so. Barry turned into a video game player and showed imo the peak of a hitter. Manny was Manny. Roger dominated in two different decades. ARod was one of the most complete players ever. But I do think an appropriate punishment for those caught is no special enshrinement day. And having to wait. The thing is, I think these same guys have the kind of ego that they still tell the HOF to pound salt even if they get enshrined, especially with restrictions. So I am also a little cool with letting these guys wait until a committee in 20-30 years decides to put them in. In the end, I think the HOFs decision to let time pass is probably the best way to handle it, and yes, an appropriate punishment for embarrassing the game- which these guys did, whether they shoved that needle in their ass with MLBs help or not.

Bonds flatly admitted that he used steroids, but claimed he didn't know what they were at the time.

I have less of an issue with them getting in the HOF (eventually...) than with them holding records. It's ridiculous that both the career home run mark and the single-season home run mark are held by guys who were juicing. Those numbers are tainted, and will be very difficult to break precisely because they were enhanced illegally.
 

N7RobBob

Crazy Cat Man
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
3,498
Points
113
Whoever mentioned Bud Selig being in, but the players during his era not getting in shows the hypocritical nature of that era of baseball. That take definitely lessoned my stance on the PED guys not getting in. If the voters can look the other way while Bud was unable to resolve the problem then they should be able to do the same for the players that definitely deserve it based on their credentials.
 

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
32,521
Reaction score
59,407
Points
148
Whoever mentioned Bud Selig being in, but the players during his era not getting in shows the hypocritical nature of that era of baseball. That take definitely lessoned my stance on the PED guys not getting in. If the voters can look the other way while Bud was unable to resolve the problem then they should be able to do the same for the players that definitely deserve it based on their credentials.

I'm not a Selig fan, but this is apples and oranges. Under federal labor law, Selig did not have the authority to test for PED's unless the player's association agreed to it in the CBA. It's a very weird narrative that has arisen. Players made the decision to use steroids, players (through their union) refused to agree to effective testing, but somehow it has now become the fault of MLB rather than the players.
 

PIP

(.)(.)
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
16,925
Reaction score
45,840
Points
148
I just don’t get it. If a player decides to supplement throughout his career. Gain muscle mass, recover quicker — isn’t that a competitive advantage over someone who chooses not to ?

Or comparing these numbers today of someone from 50 years ago when there’s been so many advancements…

Counting all the records but yet not letting them in the hall of fame ? Ok Barry, your home runs still count and you’re the all time MLB HR King (unless someone in their mind says otherwise) but you’re not getting into the hall of fame….

The 86 Mets all said they were coked out but they’re still champions….

A dude pitched a no hitter on LSD and they still count it….

Everything about baseball is stupid. All people care about is stats and if you’re this “all time___king or that all time____king”

They’re consistently inconsistent with their moral police… 2 steroid dudes saved the damn game almost 25 years ago… Baseball powers that be knew and they did nothing…Even if they couldn’t, they never said a word…

Just stupid….
 

bob2the2nd

member 32
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
22,660
Reaction score
22,275
Points
135
Its been suggested, but there should absolutely be a special wing of the HoF that explains all of this as all of this is a part of baseball history. Throw pete rose in there, throw the steriod users in there, throw anyone that didnt make it because of anythign not associated with just their performance in there.
 

Kevalier

King Kwan
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
3,706
Reaction score
6,014
Points
113
I just don’t get it. If a player decides to supplement throughout his career. Gain muscle mass, recover quicker — isn’t that a competitive advantage over someone who chooses not to ?

Or comparing these numbers today of someone from 50 years ago when there’s been so many advancements…

Counting all the records but yet not letting them in the hall of fame ? Ok Barry, your home runs still count and you’re the all time MLB HR King (unless someone in their mind says otherwise) but you’re not getting into the hall of fame….

The 86 Mets all said they were coked out but they’re still champions….

A dude pitched a no hitter on LSD and they still count it….

Everything about baseball is stupid. All people care about is stats and if you’re this “all time___king or that all time____king”

They’re consistently inconsistent with their moral police… 2 steroid dudes saved the damn game almost 25 years ago… Baseball powers that be knew and they did nothing…Even if they couldn’t, they never said a word…

Just stupid….
I agree, although the counterargument from writers in legacy media is that there's a vital distinction between "performance enhancers" like roids and "performance enablers" like amphetamines.
 

N7RobBob

Crazy Cat Man
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
3,498
Points
113
I'm not a Selig fan, but this is apples and oranges. Under federal labor law, Selig did not have the authority to test for PED's unless the player's association agreed to it in the CBA. It's a very weird narrative that has arisen. Players made the decision to use steroids, players (through their union) refused to agree to effective testing, but somehow it has now become the fault of MLB rather than the players.
Selig told the media he didn't know about steroids in baseball until after the great 98 home run race, yet told Congress under oath that he knew about it back in 94. He didn't do anything while is was commissioner and tried not to open the can of worms. On his way out he changed the rules of the HOF vote from 15 years to 10 years on the ballot. I have no doubt that Bonds and Clemens will get in via the veterans vote later on, just like how Selig got into the HOF himself.

I was more so trying to blast the fickle nature of the BBWA. Some other posters have noted, which I agree with, that some of the writers need to adapt their criteria for HOF induction or we won't see many players getting in during this generation. Baseball, in general, takes way too long to adapt to current trends to grow the league.
 

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
32,521
Reaction score
59,407
Points
148
Selig told the media he didn't know about steroids in baseball until after the great 98 home run race, yet told Congress under oath that he knew about it back in 94. He didn't do anything while is was commissioner and tried not to open the can of worms. On his way out he changed the rules of the HOF vote from 15 years to 10 years on the ballot. I have no doubt that Bonds and Clemens will get in via the veterans vote later on, just like how Selig got into the HOF himself.

I was more so trying to blast the fickle nature of the BBWA. Some other posters have noted, which I agree with, that some of the writers need to adapt their criteria for HOF induction or we won't see many players getting in during this generation. Baseball, in general, takes way too long to adapt to current trends to grow the league.

I would agree that Selig does not deserve to be in the HOF.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast

Episode 2:11 "Stakes is High"
Top