Hot Garbage and Pyrite

[MadThinker88]

Perhaps a point of some confusion stems from San Antonio being in the PCL during 2019 (& the cancelled 2020) seasons.
That said, when in the PCL, San Antonio was in the Milwaukee organization.

Last I heard San Antonio is heading back to the AA (& working with San Diego) after the reorganization process...

 

[CDAV45]

Perhaps a point of some confusion stems from San Antonio being in the PCL during 2019 (& the cancelled 2020) seasons.
That said, when in the PCL, San Antonio was in the Milwaukee organization.

Last I heard San Antonio is heading back to the AA (& working with San Diego) after the reorganization process...

That's not the case Mad. I just looked at them incorrectly.

 

[WhoAzcue]

Only time will tell which one of us is right about Naylor. I'm hoping you are to be honest, but I can't see it. Where were his "prodigious" HRs hit? His average exit velocity doesn't scream "power hitter" and I've sorted through his highlights trying to find it. I've also looked back through his stats and noticed that outside of his time in the Texas and Pacific Coast leagues, his power is rather pedestrian.

For the record, I never called him a "punch and judy hitter" either because he's is not that, but he does not have "prodigious" power.

Luplow is damn good against LHP. You'd have to ask Tito why he has been relegated to a platoon role. I don't know if the 193/274/316/589 in 244 AB has anything to do with it or not, but I'm sure it doesn't help his case. Especially on a team that has Zimmer, Bauers, Johnson, and whatever other LHH they've trotted out there. Luplow's 2019 numbers against RHP that I looked at showed him hitting 216/274/299/573 in 97 AB.

Yeah, if you look at the context of my paragraph, it's quite clear I was making the point that Luplow is an excellent platoon player from the right side, but the lack of playing time on that side can play havoc with players establishing a rhythm. I did not advocate in that post for him to play full time (the "RHP" at the end of my post should have been "LHP" and I will correct that). I have been on record--but not in that post--that Luplow should be given extended playing time against RHP to see if he can replicate what he has done at various stops in the minors, but if we have better options out there--or platoons that work--I have no problem with Jordan as a platoon player. (I dislike pigeonholing DJ as a platoon player so soon, but facts are facts. I hope Nolan Jones gets plenty of reps against southpaws.)

 

[CATS44]

While we have some holes in the lineup, a platoon involving Luplow should not be one of them. Surely Tito can find ONE left hand bat that can regularly hit righties.

Luplows career OPS vs lefties is .982.

To put that into some perspective, perhaps the two best RH bats the Indians have had in the past half century...maybe longer... are Manny and Albert Belle. Their respective OPS vs lefties were 1.060 and 1.012.

Luplow isn't either, obviously, but vs lefties he is close, and its no longer a small sample size.

If Tito can find one left hand bat who can put up an .780 OPS vs righties, we have a RF platoon that should put up an OPS of .840.

That is plus production in RF. Over the last two seasons, only eight RFs have put up more than .840 OPS.

It appeared that Luplow was gonna get his opportunity to play full-time last year, but then he hurt his back in ST and that flew out the window.

He finally recovered with a strong September...983 OPS...but the season was too short for a good look.

We are all kind of assuming that he will platoon this year, but maybe not.

Its hard for me to believe that a guy that hits lefties at a nearly 1.000 OPS clip can't at least be decent vs righties, esp when he did it all thru his MiLB career.

 

[CDAV45]

I thought we had a damn good bat against LHP when Guyer was on the roster, but Luplow is better. Guyer's career vs LHP is 274/376/449/824 while Luplow's is 275/379/603/982. Clearly Luplow hits them with much more authority.

If Johnson could prove himself worthy in CF, I would be all for giving Luplow a long, hard look in RF against all pitching. I just don't see it happening though due to roster make up.

"If Tito can find one left hand bat who can put up an .780 OPS vs righties, we have a RF platoon that should put up an OPS of .840." How about a 25 yr old LHH that's has hit 267/333/448/781 with a HR every 24 AB against RHP?

 

[CDAV45]

Yeah, if you look at the context of my paragraph, it's quite clear I was making the point that Luplow is an excellent platoon player from the right side, but the lack of playing time on that side can play havoc with players establishing a rhythm. I did not advocate in that post for him to play full time (the "RHP" at the end of my post should have been "LHP" and I will correct that). I have been on record--but not in that post--that Luplow should be given extended playing time against RHP to see if he can replicate what he has done at various stops in the minors, but if we have better options out there--or platoons that work--I have no problem with Jordan as a platoon player. (I dislike pigeonholing DJ as a platoon player so soon, but facts are facts. I hope Nolan Jones gets plenty of reps against southpaws.)

You don't need to correct it for me. I just wanted to make sure that my understanding was correct. I with you on pigeonholing players, and Luplow falls into that IMO. I don't think that he's had enough consistent AB vs RHP to cast him into the platoon role forever. Clearly he's good at it, but still.........

The real problem with a Luplow platoon hasn't been Luplow. Get us a LH masher or give Luplow an honest look.

 

[CATS44]

Personally, I'd be happy if we quit screwing around with platoons...

Put Naylor at first and Luplow in right...and give them two months to see what we have.

Both have hit the ball at every level they've played.

By then Johnson has more at bats in Columbus. Bradley has time in Columbus to show that he has finally learned how to hit a baseball. Jones gets some AAA under his belt. If Mazara (gsons guy) is willing to play in Columbus, bring him in.

Zimmer can back up Mercado. Bauers can back up Naquin.

It might prove to be that we have everything we need already in house.

No more shopping for outfielders. Wouldn't that be different?

We could trade our excess talent for more pitchers and maybe another upper level catching prospect.

The FO has targeted a lot of players in trade. If they truly trust their judgement, run with what we've got.

I dont understand trading for players, and then not playing them. They didn't trade for them because they were platoon bats.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

While we have some holes in the lineup, a platoon involving Luplow should not be one of them. Surely Tito can find ONE left hand bat that can regularly hit righties.

Luplows career OPS vs lefties is .982.

To put that into some perspective, perhaps the two best RH bats the Indians have had in the past half century...maybe longer... are Manny and Albert Belle. Their respective OPS vs lefties were 1.060 and 1.012.

Luplow isn't either, obviously, but vs lefties he is close, and its no longer a small sample size.

If Tito can find one left hand bat who can put up an .780 OPS vs righties, we have a RF platoon that should put up an OPS of .840.

That is plus production in RF. Over the last two seasons, only eight RFs have put up more than .840 OPS.

How about Naylor platooning in right with Luplow? CDAV said he heard Tito say on a recent podcast that Naylor is an outfielder and first base will be manned by Bradley or Bauers. Since Rosario hits lefties and righties equally well and is getting $8 million I assume he'll be in left every day, which means Naylor is in right field since he won't be in center.

Rosario in left and a Luplow/Naylor platoon in right has a very good chance of giving us an OPS of .800+ at both corners. Then it comes down to whether we can find a halfway decent bat between Mercado and Zimmer in center and between Bradley and Bauers at first.

I don't see how the overall outfield production can possibly be the same or worse than last year considering the additon of Rosario. But a bounce back year from Mercado would go a long way. Daniel Johnson and Nolan Jones could also be factors in the second half.

Yeah, Luplow is Brandon Guyer on steroids only without all those hit-by-pitches.

We really need bounce back seasons at the dish from Mercado and Berto, along with somebody to do better than Santana's .199/.699 at first base and match Lindor's .750 OPS at short.

We need Quantrill or somebody else to replace Cookie's 2.91 ERA or at least be in the ballpark. Despite the very low ERA the Indians were 6-6 when Carrasco started thanks to a horrible offense. If the offense improves we can still go .500 in those games even if the ERA isn't as low.

Clase needs to replace Hand in the bullpen which is a tall order. Or Karinchak replaces Hand and Clase replaces Karinchak.

So I think the key players this year are Clase, Quantrill, Mercado, the new shortstop (Rosario or Gimenez), the new first baseman (Bradley or Bauers), and Aaron Civale, whose ERA went from 2.34 in 2019 to 4.74 last year in 12 starts last year.

Tristan McKenzie needs to take the next step. Last year with the bases empty opposing batters had an OPS of .491. With runners on it was .826. McKenzie needs to improve his ability to pitch from the stretch with his attention divided. However, with RISP he held hitters to 1-for-10, suggesting that when he didn't have to worry about holding runners and could focus on the hitter he was fine.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Ton of power because he hit 17 HR in 500 AB in the PCL. OK, We'll go with that.

Per Fangraphs:

Bradley: Game Power 50/55, Raw Power 70/70
Naylor: Game Power 45/60, Raw Power 70/70

 

[CATS44]

Neither Naylor nor Luplow have ever looked like a platoon bat when allowed to play every day.

In fact, Naylor has reverse splits. He has hit lefties somewhat better.

It would be a waste to put the two of them in a platoon without giving both of them a real look at full-time play.

Trading EGon, a non factor, for a platoon bat makes some sense.

Trading Clevinger in part for a top 100 prospect whose basic position is first base and immediately make him a platoon outfield bat, even though he has reverse splits, makes no sense.

We need to maximize the production on the overall roster, not strangle it.

 

[Gson]

Agree to an extent..

The handedness & playing time factors into Tito's decision to start Luplow or Naylor or Mercado or Naquin (looks like he's going to be a Ranger) or Freeman. A balance has to be considered when the everyday lineup is filled with so many younger guys.. the grind, while physical, can be more onerus mentally... At the end of the day.. an everyday lineup is preferred.. With the short time all these guys are going to be with the Tribe.. that may be a pipe dream.. ?.

 

[CATS44]

I dont know what you mean by short time, gson.

Another point is that if Naylor is relegated to being part of a platoon in the outfield, one of Bauers or Bradley is going to play every day...vs both handed pitchers.

And that doesn't make sense.

 

[NEOLeo]

I dont know what you mean by short time, gson.

Another point is that if Naylor is relegated to being part of a platoon in the outfield, one of Bauers or Bradley is going to play every day...vs both handed pitchers.

And that doesn't make sense.

I think it’s possible that Naylor could play everyday: as a platoon in a corner OF spot with Luplow and against lefties at 1B to spell Bradley/Bauers. Essentially the platoon would be Luplow/Bradley (or Bauers).

I also think it’s possible that E. Rosario plays RF to keep Naylor in left. CA is on record from the signing announcement that it was still up in the air whether Rosario would play LF or RF and my guess is it depends on which left handed bat wins the open corner spot. If it’s Johnson, Rosario is probably in left. If it’s Naylor (or Bauers), Rosario probably goes to right.

 

[Gson]

I dont know what you mean by short time, gson.

Another point is that if Naylor is relegated to being part of a platoon in the outfield, one of Bauers or Bradley is going to play every day...vs both handed pitchers.

And that doesn't make sense.

short time = less than a career.. three to five years.. typically with some outliers.. most in the fewer years direction..

 

[CDAV45]

I think it’s possible that Naylor could play everyday: as a platoon in a corner OF spot with Luplow and against lefties at 1B to spell Bradley/Bauers. Essentially the platoon would be Luplow/Bradley (or Bauers).

I also think it’s possible that E. Rosario plays RF to keep Naylor in left. CA is on record from the signing announcement that it was still up in the air whether Rosario would play LF or RF and my guess is it depends on which left handed bat wins the open corner spot. If it’s Johnson, Rosario is probably in left. If it’s Naylor (or Bauers), Rosario probably goes to right.

You may have hit the nail on the head here Leo. I also agree with CATS, and I mentioned it before, if Naylor wins one of the corner OF spots then there is no reason to platoon him. Like you said, against LHP Naylor could relieve Bauers or Bradley at 1B and Luplow can take over Naylor's OF spot. It makes too much sense not to be true. The wrinkle in the plan is Johnson unless they put him in CF and many here don't think that's feasible(I'm not one of them).

I used to say this frequently on the IBI board.......I f'n hate platoons. This is still true today. How nice would it be to have a corner OF/1B like Mancini where you don't have to worry about platooning him and he hits like a corner player?