Indians Ownership Discussion

[Kevalier]

Also, we need to acknowledge that a mortgage company owner whose last name is Middleman feels like it’s a bit too on the nose.

 

[Lee]

My two issues with Gilbert are 1) he doesn’t always spend money wisely… yes, he spends it, but not always in the best of ways, but 2) I think he gets in the way sometimes of the GM. I guess you can add a third and say that sometimes he has foot in mouth syndrome from some stupid stuff he can say, but thankfully lately, he’s been pretty quiet.

I am not sure Gilbert would meddle in baseball the same though. It is such a complex system with the minor leagues and we already have a very well run franchise in place.

I get why would be afraid of Gilbert owning another Cleveland team, but personally I dont see the same issues translating. But the positives would be much higher payroll, and the team would stay with Gilbert having major ties to Cleveland and the only city he would move the team too already having a franchise.

Besides with the way Cleveland has owned the Tigers the last few years, buying the Indians would be Gilbert's best chance of owning a Detroit sports franchise.

 

[Lee]

You don't just get half of Dan Gilbert.

You're going to get the culture issues, meddling and failures that come with it.

Dan Gilbert provides almost zero worthwhile traits as an owner, short of being the owner when a once-in-a-generation talent was born down the road.


You can project that you're getting his money and nothing else, but you'd be lying to yourself about his massive failures and complete inability to run a stable franchise.

I just dont think Gilbert would meddle the same in baseball. I could be dead wrong, but baseball is much more complicated than basketball from a franchise running point of view.

 

[Kevalier]

I am not sure Gilbert would meddle in baseball the same though. It is such a complex system with the minor leagues and we already have a very well run franchise in place.

I get why would be afraid of Gilbert owning another Cleveland team, but personally I dont see the same issues translating. But the positives would be much higher payroll, and the team would stay with Gilbert having major ties to Cleveland and the only city he would move the team too already having a franchise.

Besides with the way Cleveland has owned the Tigers the last few years, buying the Indians would be Gilbert's best chance of owning a Detroit sports franchise.

The biggest key to sustainable success in MLB without any shadow of a doubt is a smart and stable front office. With Gilbert being Gilbert, you wouldn't see Antonetti or Chernoff (or Francona for that matter) stick around here, and I would then expect Gilbert to swing and miss trying to recruit a big name to run the Baseball Operations here. Look at the teams in the league with meddling owners (Angels, Phillies, etc.) Not exactly pillars of success.

 

[Lee]

The biggest key to sustainable success in MLB without any shadow of a doubt is a smart and stable front office. With Gilbert being Gilbert, you wouldn't see Antonetti or Chernoff (or Francona for that matter) stick around here, and I would then expect Gilbert to swing and miss trying to recruit a big name to run the Baseball Operations here. Look at the teams in the league with meddling owners (Angels, Phillies, etc.) Not exactly pillars of success.

Why? What big name did Gilbert bring in for the Cavs?

And why would Gilbert mess with success? For years Gilbert has allowed Jay Farmer run Quicken with very little interference, why would he do what he does for basketball but not mortgages?

I think we are making allot of assumptions. Gilbert is recovering from a stroke, has a history of letting people run a business for him that are successful and baseball organizations are complicated. I think we are all making huge assumptions that Gilbert becomes George Steinbrenner. He is sick and still has the Cavs.

 

[Kevalier]

Why? What big name did Gilbert bring in for the Cavs?

And why would Gilbert mess with success? For years Gilbert has allowed Jay Farmer run Quicken with very little interference, why would he do what he does for basketball but not mortgages?

I think we are making allot of assumptions. Gilbert is recovering from a stroke, has a history of letting people run a business for him that are successful and baseball organizations are complicated. I think we are all making huge assumptions that Gilbert becomes George Steinbrenner. He is sick and still has the Cavs.

Larry Brown, Tom Izzo, John Calipari and Chauncey Billups are all names off the top of my head that he tried to land at some point. Gilbert has constantly meddled with basketball decisions over the years. That’s not up for debate. While he is obviously in a different place health wise right now because of the stroke, there’s no reason to think that his proclivity to be hands on has been completely eliminated. Look no further than the Anderson Varejao signing/stunt earlier this year.

 

[Lee]

Larry Brown, Tom Izzo, John Calipari and Chauncey Billups are all names off the top of my head that he tried to land at some point. Gilbert has constantly meddled with basketball decisions over the years. That’s not up for debate. While he is obviously in a different place health wise right now because of the stroke, there’s no reason to think that his proclivity to be hands on has been completely eliminated. Look no further than the Anderson Varejao signing/stunt earlier this year.

Verejao came back to retire a Cav. He played a total of 36 minutes, fan favorite, not sure why Verejao has anything to do with anything.

But I agree he meddled in basketball, but he hasnt meddled with Quicken in years since he left operations. Just saying baseball is different, and he is sick, I doubt he meddles much. Just an investment to put his new found wealth of Rock Financial going public.

 

[JDailey23]

I don’t know much about Gilbert, but before buying the Cavs, what connection did he have to basketball? Did he play? Just love the game? Or just want the recognition of being an owner??

 

[JDailey23]

Have to remember. Lots of owners meddle. Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder….Jimmy. Difference between NFL, NBA and MLB is the cap.
Gilbert could have unlimited/uncapped resources.

You take the good with the bad.

 

[Seiklis]

I don’t know much about Gilbert, but before buying the Cavs, what connection did he have to basketball? Did he play? Just love the game? Or just want the recognition of being an owner??

He had pretty strong ties to Michigan State basketball if I'm recalling correct

(More than just the Izzo mancrush)

I know he looked into the Tigers at one point (Makes sense since he owns most of the buildings on that street)

 

[Ohio]

Larry Brown, Tom Izzo, John Calipari and Chauncey Billups are all names off the top of my head that he tried to land at some point. Gilbert has constantly meddled with basketball decisions over the years. That’s not up for debate. While he is obviously in a different place health wise right now because of the stroke, there’s no reason to think that his proclivity to be hands on has been completely eliminated. Look no further than the Anderson Varejao signing/stunt earlier this year.

And his other businesses, that he doesn’t meddle in? Do those count?

 

[B Mac]

Did Sherman run the organization as a minority owner? Does any minority owner 'run the organization'? Their chief role is to add capital to the organization. Sure, they have a say, but they don't have a final say or even a dominant say in the way things are done.

I think its pretty obvious that Middleman would intend to take over majority ownership just like was the original plan with Sherman. There would be a succession plan that may take a few years to complete.

Which, if the new lease gets locked up and Middleman can invest some of his Billion+ dollars while not changing any of the front office? Why would anyone be upset?

 

[The Oi]

Also, we need to acknowledge that a mortgage company owner whose last name is Middleman feels like it’s a bit too on the nose.

Acknowledged.

On a similar note, @Lee ’s last name is Pigfucker.

 

[Lee]

Acknowledged.

On a similar note, @Lee ’s last name is Pigfucker.

First of all, not Kosher, 2nd its not my last name.

 

[Derek]

Have to remember. Lots of owners meddle. Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder….Jimmy. Difference between NFL, NBA and MLB is the cap.
Gilbert could have unlimited/uncapped resources.

You take the good with the bad.

Trust me when I say that the way the team spends would not change substantially regardless of who owns the team or whether or not they have a minority owner