Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[BimboColesHair]

I agree, even if Okoro develops marginally as a shooter, that’s enough that he can’t be left open. It’s also enough to open up driving lanes for him.

If Mobley extends his range to outside the arc, which looks inevitable, I don’t see the problem with Okoro starting as a defensive stopper long-term.

Not everyone in your starting lineup needs to be capable of getting you 25 points any given night.

Not necessarily in response to this, just expanding.

It's also interesting to me to read how posters are so sure that we HAVE to have a 2 guard who can create for others and create their own shot and be a volume scorer and can't be primarily a spot up shooter/slasher and anything less than the 2 guard who can create for others or their own shot and be a volume scorer is not good enough to win with this group. Because other good teams have that in some cases, we HAVE to have that.

Saying this all while the Cavs are deploying one of the most effective zag lineups we have seen in a long time in the NBA while the rest of the league is zigging with the tall ball lineup while the league is getting smaller. No one in their right mind, before the season, would have believed you if you said a lineup of Garland, Okoro, Markkanen, Mobley, and Allen would be one of the best in the league by the halfway point. Yet here we are.

There is no blueprint to create an effective lineup or effective roster, if there was every team would be doing it right now. Every player doesn't have to have the capabilities to create their own shots, be heavy effective ISO scorers, be a world class ball-handler, be a 15 to 20 PPG scorer. That's not how you effectively team build.

Yet some people here still think you need just that to be good enough and can't be convinced otherwise.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Not necessarily in response to this, just expanding.

It's also interesting to me to read how posters are so sure that we HAVE to have a 2 guard who can create for others and create their own shot and be a volume scorer and can't be primarily a spot up shooter/slasher and anything less than the 2 guard who can create for others or their own shot and be a volume scorer is not good enough to win with this group. Because other good teams have that in some cases, we HAVE to have that.

Saying this all while the Cavs are deploying one of the most effective zag lineups we have seen in a long time in the NBA while the rest of the league is zigging with the tall ball lineup while the league is getting smaller. No one in their right mind, before the season, would have believed you if you said a lineup of Garland, Okoro, Markkanen, Mobley, and Allen would be one of the best in the league by the halfway point. Yet here we are.

There is no blueprint to create an effective lineup or effective roster, if there was every team would be doing it right now. Every player doesn't have to have the capabilities to create their own shots, be heavy effective ISO scorers, be a world class ball-handler, be a 15 to 20 PPG scorer. That's not how you effectively team build.

Yet some people here still think you need just that to be good enough and can't be convinced otherwise.

Could never afford such a team even if you could build it.

 

[foucault87]

I also do think we have another shot creator on our roster already, even if he is a few years from that load in Mobley. KG was the main creator for years in Minny and I think Mobley can get to a similar position if need be. Of course, he would have an elite PG to help share the load which KG did for the two years of Brandon

 

[Lee]

Hey man, baseball guys like basketball.

Basketball and golf are 1a and 1b 2nd sports for probably 80% of baseball people.

Gols is every athletes 1b sport that isnt a pro golfer, lol.

It seems all pro athletes want to be pro golfers for some reason while golfers are just happy, lol.

 

[I'mWithDan]

It's also interesting to me to read how posters are so sure that we HAVE to have a 2 guard who can create for others and create their own shot and be a volume scorer and can't be primarily a spot up shooter/slasher and anything less than the 2 guard who can create for others or their own shot and be a volume scorer is not good enough to win with this group. Because other good teams have that in some cases, we HAVE to have that.

I don’t think anyone is saying that.

You need to be a shooter or you need to be a creator.

If you are neither, then you have a problem.

If Okoro becomes one or the other, then the conversation will change.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Could never afford such a team even if you could build it.

It’s not even that you can’t afford them, it’s that the game is played with 1 ball.

At some point if you have too many of those guys on your roster their skill sets become redundant and they no longer fit with each other.

It’s why every successful “Big 3” ever made in the NBA features one guy who doesn’t need the ball to be effective.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don’t think anyone is saying that.

You need to be a shooter or you need to be a creator.

If you are neither, then you have a problem.

If Okoro becomes one or the other, then the conversation will change.

And that’s fine, I agree with that. Said as much for a few months now, about him becoming at least a respectable shooter from 3.

Problem is the people I’m arguing with are arguing as if he will NEVER be either of those things, which is ridiculous to me.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Gols is every athletes 1b sport that isnt a pro golfer, lol.

It seems all pro athletes want to be pro golfers for some reason while golfers are just happy, lol.

Problem with baseball players, specifically position players, is it can fuck your swing up if you golf too much in the off-season or on off days. Had to deal with that before haha.

 

[I'mWithDan]

And that’s fine, I agree with that. Said as much for a few months now, about him becoming at least a respectable shooter from 3.

Problem is the people I’m arguing with are arguing as if he will NEVER be either of those things, which is ridiculous to me.

I think it is a longer shot but possible.

I’m more encouraged in his slashing than I am his shooting this season.

He has seen a good uptick in his finishing stats as well as, qualitatively, just looking better around the basket.

I think his avenue to being a weak side slasher is more realistic than him becoming a good outside shooter but we’ll see.

 

[shoes22]

I see no reason to think Okoro can’t develop into having a reliable outside shot. He was showing signs of it right before he went down with COVID.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I think it is a longer shot but possible.

I’m more encouraged in his slashing than I am his shooting this season.

He has seen a good uptick in his finishing stats as well as, qualitatively, just looking better around the basket.

I think his avenue to being a weak side slasher is more realistic than him becoming a good outside shooter but we’ll see.

His slashing is already pretty advanced when he is under control. On top of that he is by far the Cavs best perimeter player at getting to the FT line.

And he doesn’t use his strength yet on drives all that much. He’s built like a brick shithouse but rarely bullies guys. Have a feeling that comes with maturity.

And I have some faith in his shot. It certainly isn’t broken, looks fluid and like he is confident in it when he’s in rhythm. I don’t think it’s too far fetched to see him turn into at least a 35% shooter from 3. Anything over that and I’ll be over the moon.

The guy just needs a good stretch of availability. This entire season has been stop and go for him. Seems like every stretch he plays the games right before he does down are the ones where you go “look at this guy!” and then he’s taken out of that rhythm.

And I’m expecting the same thing to come from Mobley as he matures. They’re both the same age and with similar good enough shot mechanics that suggests there is a better shooter in there somewhere, at least to my untrained eyes.

 

[adam81king]

And that's fine to think that way, if we were in the middle of a title window.

We are not. We will not be this year either, no matter what we do or who we trade. This team is still a ways away from being able to threaten the likes of the Golden State Warriors in a 7 game series.

Just a ridiculous standard to judge a group that is the youngest starting group in the NBA as a whole.

This is why I don't understand the rampant desire for marginal upgrades this year with guys like Eric Gordon, Josh Hart, Gary Harris, etc at the risk of stifling the development of Okoro, and even Stevens and Windler.

 

[stick]

Shout out Ice.
With around 6:47 minutes to go in the fourth, Garland threw a pass ahead to Okoro on the right wing. Tie game.

Issac could've attacked Blake Griffin. He did test the waters a little bit (tried going baseline). BUT, he pulled the ball back out and passed it back to Garland to initiate that half-court possession.


Cavs ended up with a missed Lauri three on the left wing (which was a pretty good look and maybe helped calibrate him for his make on the right wing later in the quarter).

A lot of 20/21 year old guards/forwards probably would've taken Blake to the rim, forced the issue. Maybe they get fouled there, but in this part of the game, it's too risky and could be a wasted possession.

I thought Okoro showed really good poise and understanding of the game situation. Had a clutch baseline drive late in the fourth and was playing damn good defense.

Also thought this was a damn fine read by DG recognizing the defense wasn't set.

 

[blommen]

Darius looking at Ice while thinking "This motherfucker has bailed my ass out on defense so many times and we both know this, but I can't say that shit publically"

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

In case anybody missed this from Fedor today:

Since the start of December, Okoro is shooting 40.5% on 3s, making him a threat for opposing defenses. He’s identifying cutting opportunities. His effective field goal percentage has increased from 47.8% last year to 51.4% this season. He’s also much better finishing at the rim, ranking in the 67th percentile this season after being in the 30th percentile in 2020-21.

The kid is coming along on the offensive side of the ball. On defense?

Opponents are shooting just 40.7% from the field and 28.1% from 3-point range against Okoro this season.

He's showing signs of making the same kind of jump in his second season that Garland did, but his progress has been interrupted twice, once by the protocol and once by the elbow sprain.

Isaac makes it extremely difficult to just beat him. Now your big guys don’t have to come help. Now the rotations and all those things aren’t there. Having individual defenders that can keep guys in front in this league is priceless. - JBB