Josh Gordon discussion

[oasis05]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Regardless of Gordon you have to replaced Little. The guy is way too inconsistent. I'd look at it as killing two birds with one stone. Getting another wide receiver gives us insurance in case gordon has more drug problems, and knocks little out of the rotation.

 

[Prime 1978]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Josh Gordon should be Jim Browns pet project. The good teams find a way to fix their players with problems. Not saying they are always successful but a lot of them are. You didn't see Dallas give up on Dez, they actually gave him more resources to improve his behavior. San Fran (reportedly) are interested in Josh while dealing with their own problem of Aldon Smith. You don't see the giving up on him. The good organizations try to fix the problem as opposed to run from it comes to a very talented player

Back to my Jim Brown quote, if his biggest strength is his street cred, if he can bring together bloods and crips, why not have him and Gordon tied at the hip or at least working together on a regular basis. Jim can even talk to him about some of his mishaps. Not to mention, in the long run this could change the outside perception of the team. I don't know how credible players are when they say they want a family atmosphere, but what better way to start that family atmosphere than to stick by a young guy that's made some mistakes??? As opposed to making the "business move" and cut your potential loss by moving Gordon.

I'd just hate to see a team lacking talent give up on a young guy with tons of talent. I remember the Cris Carter trade, I don't want to see the same thing happen with Gordon.

 

[Soda]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

A lot of Cleveland homerism going on right now. Gordon doesn't compete for the ball like the top 5 receivers do yet, but I can see him developing into a top 10 WR. Makes the position look so effortless, love his talent.

Hang on now.. There is some credence to this. I have seen Gordon quitting on plays on occasion. They obviously don't make highlights or .gifs, but they're there. I have seen them; Gordon will stop blocking once another guy gets the ball, regardless of where he is in the play.

I'm very high on Gordon and think he should not be traded, but we should hedge the expectation that he's the consummate teammate who always has his head on a swivel. He's simply not there yet.

 

[Phills14]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

He does have lapses where it appears he's either not mentally there or doesn't know the playbook. Doesn't happen all the time but seems to show once a game.

 

[pjtoadie]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You're arguing apples to oranges. I said going forward I'd take him over Dez. Right now, sure Dez is the better of the two (more experienced after all) but its not as far as you think. As a rookie alone Gordon was more impressive than Dez's rookie season. He's averaging a ridiculous 16 yards per reception. Did that his rookie year, is up to near 17 already this season! Dez has never done that in his career thus far.

Gordon is a ridiculous talent. I have no idea why you'd seriously think his upside is that much better, when Gordon's production thus far, is actually been more impressive than Dez' going by comparison early on in their careers.

Dez' rookie season 45 receptions, just 561 yards. Gordon 50 receptions, 805 yards! That's not even close.

Gordon has all the tools, skills, speed, and even bigger size than Dez to be better. What does Dez have that's so much more superior to Gordon as a talent? Dez can be a really crappy route runner at times, and is often experiencing a disconnect with his QB. Focus much like Gordon has been a problem at times.

Who cares what they did in their rookie seasons! RG3 had a better rookie year than Peyton Manning did in his rookie year but I'd much rather have Peyton Also Romo already had chemistry with Miles Austin and Jason Witten so it took Dez a little longer to get on the same page with Romo. I wouldn't say that was a knock on Dez per say. Weeden and Gordon were both rookies together so it's not like Weeden already had a favorite target to go to.

Actually Dez and Gordon are about the same size so not sure why you think Gordon is bigger? Dez has to work on a few things so when he does get those worked out he'll be even better and he's already a top 5 WR! Actually there's really no more disconnect between Dez and Romo.

 

[pjtoadie]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

I hate the Cowboys and Dez Bryant is probably a punk, but he does shit on the field that is so utterly amazing. He's my #2 receiver in the league by far.

Well I don't agree on hating the Cowboys because they're my favorite team but I completely agree with Dez being the #2 receiver in the league. You hate the Cowboys but at least you give credit where credit is due!

 

[godfather]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Who cares what they did in their rookie seasons! RG3 had a better rookie year than Peyton Manning did in his rookie year but I'd much rather have Peyton Also Romo already had chemistry with Miles Austin and Jason Witten so it took Dez a little longer to get on the same page with Romo. I wouldn't say that was a knock on Dez per say. Weeden and Gordon were both rookies together so it's not like Weeden already had a favorite target to go to.

Actually Dez and Gordon are about the same size so not sure why you think Gordon is bigger? Dez has to work on a few things so when he does get those worked out he'll be even better and he's already a top 5 WR! Actually there's really no more disconnect between Dez and Romo.

You are quoted by saying "Dez's upside is much higher than Gordon's!" and you have no real basis of saying this at all. I'm going by their early year production because, you know, Gordon is BARELY in his second season!

People often misread what is actually said. All that was is said is that Gordon is a top-5 talent, not a top-5 player. You look at Gordon's small body of work, compared to Dez's, early in his career. And you also look at that Gordon is bigger(okay a little bigger, but technically bigger), he's actually faster, and can make the spectacular catches. What exactly makes Dez's upside so much bigger? I just want to know is all.

You're arguing apples and oranges. Dez is better right NOW, but he's more experienced, has played in the NFL longer.

Josh Gordon is 22 years old PEOPLE! Let's stop acting like he doesn't have room for improvement, and is only going to get better himself.

To think he has a lot of work, to become a top caliber receiver in the league is okay. But to seriously deny him his talent is absurd.

There aren't many receivers of his size, strength, and speed that can do the things he's capable of.

If Gordon was traded to the Patriots (which I fear could be a possibility given how desperate they are for receiver talent). People would be vomiting all over themselves, how quickly he'd become one of the top and most explosive weapons in the NFL.

Lot of those receivers are playing with much better QB's, may I add.

 

[Lee]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

Hang on now.. There is some credence to this. I have seen Gordon quitting on plays on occasion. They obviously don't make highlights or .gifs, but they're there. I have seen them; Gordon will stop blocking once another guy gets the ball, regardless of where he is in the play.

I'm very high on Gordon and think he should not be traded, but we should hedge the expectation that he's the consummate teammate who always has his head on a swivel. He's simply not there yet.

I am not sure he will ever be there, but that is typical for top talent wr's. I think a top organization has an atmosphere that helps "head cases" with talent like Gordon. I dont think you can accept a "head case" at qb, thus i wanted no part of Freeman, but at WR it is par for the course.

The fact still remains that Gordon has top 5 talent and that is something that cant be found easily. I want no part of trading him. I was ok with trading Richardson, but Gordon will be much harder to replace.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You say there is no basis for Bryant's upside being better than Gordon's, and while I disagree with that as a whole you also contradicted yourself by going on to argue that Gordon's upside is better without any real basis in your argument either.

Upside is a matter of opinion, but Bryant is only 24 and is leaps and bounds better than JG at this stage and was at his age 23 season as well.

His rookie numbers mean next to nothing given their respective targets, but Bryant has more polished route running ability, ball skills and separation ability.

Maybe Gordon gets there, but that may not happen as well. He's certainly shown no drive to get better that we as fans can see.

Either way there it's my opinion that there is less chance Gordon reaches top 5 WR status as compared to Bryant, who is already one of the three best pass catchers in the game today.

 

[godfather]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

I am not sure he will ever be there, but that is typical for top talent wr's. I think a top organization has an atmosphere that helps "head cases" with talent like Gordon. I dont think you can accept a "head case" at qb, thus i wanted no part of Freeman, but at WR it is par for the course.

The fact still remains that Gordon has top 5 talent and that is something that cant be found easily. I want no part of trading him. I was ok with trading Richardson, but Gordon will be much harder to replace.

If he ends up with the Patriots, you'll never hear a peep more from him, and he'll just turn into a touchdown machine, and one of the most productive players in the NFL. If they can turn Wes Welker, a punt returner into the greatest slot receiver of all-time, just imagine what Brady and Belichick can do with an OBVIOUS talent like Gordon. That's what I fear. Trading him is 100% bad idea for the Browns.

I know he has problems, but the talent is too good to give up. Let's hope he gets his act together. Because we're a better football team with Josh Gordon. That's pretty obvious.

 

[godfather]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You say there is no basis for Bryant's upside being better than Gordon's, and while I disagree with that as a whole you also contradicted yourself by going on to argue that Gordon's upside is better without any real basis in your argument either.

Upside is a matter of opinion, but Bryant is only 24 and is leaps and bounds better than JG at this stage and was at his age 23 season as well.

His rookie numbers mean next to nothing given their respective targets, but Bryant has more polished route running ability, ball skills and separation ability.

Maybe Gordon gets there, but that may not happen as well. He's certainly shown no drive to get better that we as fans can see.

Either way there it's my opinion that there is less chance Gordon reaches top 5 WR status as compared to Bryant, who is already one of the three best pass catchers in the game today.

I stated he's bigger, faster, and a much better vertical threat already than Bryant. I've stated facts. His yards per reception is mind boggling, and better than Dez's at any point of his career. That's a fact, not something made up. He's clearly already a better vertical threat than Dez Bryant has ever been. He's not a complete receiver by any margins though. Far from that.

He doesn't get good separation. Really? I saw the same Josh Gordon split between three defenders on Thursday night football, pretty effortlessly, that should have been a touchdown, but unfortunately dropped the pass. That's rare ability.

Despite his poor route running, how do you think he's getting open so easily? He's a nightmare to handle in man coverage, because he's such a threat to burn the top off his man, and can basically catch anything in the air. What happens when he becomes a better route runner?

Your harsh criticism of Gordon is way overboard. I mean, the guy is not going to be a complete route runner, and have the ability to read all the different defensive coverages at age 22, not even half way into his second season. Your expectations aren't just high on young players, they're borderline unrealistic.

 

[pjtoadie]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You are quoted by saying "Dez's upside is much higher than Gordon's!" and you have no real basis of saying this at all. I'm going by their early year production because, you know, Gordon is BARELY in his second season!

People often misread what is actually said. All that was is said is that Gordon is a top-5 talent, not a top-5 player. You look at Gordon's small body of work, compared to Dez's, early in his career. And you also look at that Gordon is bigger(okay a little bigger, but technically bigger), he's actually faster, and can make the spectacular catches. What exactly makes Dez's upside so much bigger? I just want to know is all.

You're arguing apples and oranges. Dez is better right NOW, but he's more experienced, has played in the NFL longer.

Josh Gordon is 22 years old PEOPLE! Let's stop acting like he doesn't have room for improvement, and is only going to get better himself.

To think he has a lot of work, to become a top caliber receiver in the league is okay. But to seriously deny him his talent is absurd.

There aren't many receivers of his size, strength, and speed that can do the things he's capable of.

If Gordon was traded to the Patriots (which I fear could be a possibility given how desperate they are for receiver talent). People would be vomiting all over themselves, how quickly he'd become one of the top and most explosive weapons in the NFL.

Lot of those receivers are playing with much better QB's, may I add.

I never denied Gordon his talent btw. I think he is and will be a really good WR for years to come if he stays out of trouble. Your original post said that you like Gordon's upside and like him in the long run over Dez. I simply disagreed and think Dez has more upside. It seems that you were just basing this on their rookie seasons and my point is Dez is already dominating in only his 4th season and he's not even at this best. Dez is only two years older than Gordon so it's not like he's been in the league for 10 years and has already hit his full potential. I would take Dez now and in the long run that's my point and I am sticking to it.

I will give you that Gordon is faster but Dez is still fast and he is incredibly physical and can make all of the catches. In the red zone you can literally just throw him a jump ball in the end zone and he comes down with it 9 times out of 10. I mean to almost have 900 yards and 10 TD's in 8 consecutive games last year is amazing and already this year he has 6 TD's in only 4 games.

We can agree to disagree I guess....

 

[pjtoadie]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

I stated he's bigger, faster, and a much better vertical threat already than Bryant. I've stated facts. .

Still don't know how you can state that Gordon is really bigger than Dez? Gordon is 6'3"/225 and Dez is 6'2"/222 that's pretty much close to being the same size as you can get. Also yeah Gordon is a great vertical threat but the Browns play a different offense than the Cowboys. The Browns OL is so much better in pass protection than the Cowboys and Romo never had the time that Weeden and Hoyer get. The pass protection is actually much better this year for Dallas and they finally attacked the defense more against Denver and Dez had 141 yards and two TD's. The previous 4 games for Dallas was very conservative dink and dunk. Romo hardly ever threw the ball down field.

 

[Binkster]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

You say there is no basis for Bryant's upside being better than Gordon's, and while I disagree with that as a whole you also contradicted yourself by going on to argue that Gordon's upside is better without any real basis in your argument either.

Upside is a matter of opinion, but Bryant is only 24 and is leaps and bounds better than JG at this stage and was at his age 23 season as well.

His rookie numbers mean next to nothing given their respective targets, but Bryant has more polished route running ability, ball skills and separation ability.

I can do this all day. :chuckles:

 

[pjtoadie]

Re: Browns wanting 2nd round pick for Gordon. Niners interested?

I can do this all day. :chuckles:

Yeah that was also against backups Cincy was without Leon Hall, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Reggie Nelson in that game.

The fact that there is still a debate about who's better between Dez Bryant and Josh Gordon is laughable! Dez is clearly the better WR!