Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

[The Human Q-Tip]

Don't bother, the die is cast. JA is as good as he'll ever be. It's all downhill from here for any big man who doesn't improve his stats on a steady regular basis from when he entered the league. Nevermind that the old conventional wisdom used to be that it takes big men longer to develop.

There is a quite a difference between saying "Allen cannot improve and it is all downhill from here," and "we shouldn't assume that Allen will improve.".

Why not just argue with other posters instead of inventing a strawman?

 

[cavsfever]

Allen is the kind of player you spend a lot on when you have a team that is already good but needs an athletic defensive rim runner center as a key role playing piece. Because Koby FUCKED UP the rebuild, we actually have no idea of what our identity as a team is, where we are going, or how we are going to get good. So locking yourself in long term on someone like him at a high salary is probably a mistake. Whatever we do with him we have to make sure he's tradeable.

 

[Futuredome]

Allen is the kind of player you spend a lot on when you have a team that is already good but needs an athletic defensive rim runner center as a key role playing piece. Because Koby FUCKED UP the rebuild, we actually have no idea of what our identity as a team is, where we are going, or how we are going to get good. So locking yourself in long term on someone like him at a high salary is probably a mistake. Whatever we do with him we have to make sure he's tradeable.

Can't really eff up a rebuild when you start from scratch, miss on the lottery(until now) and have to build up.

 

[Nphan]

I think people are undervalueing JA because of how he finished out the season. Let's revue. 1) he was never the same after the concussion 2) covid season had everything fucked up 3) all of this was happening in a tank year with half the team injured so do yathink that wouldn't mess with the motivation of even an intelligent guy like JA?

I can see something in the $20-24 mil range because JA is solid as fuck with upside potential. He is going to get better and if we ever field a competitive team watch out for what a motivated JA can do.

How much did he promise to pay you?

 

[buzzdog]

What a bunch of bashers. Did JA fuck all your sisters or what?

 

[Man Called X]

What a bunch of bashers. Did JA fuck all your sisters or what?

Did JA give you a reacharound last night?

 

[adam81king]

Did JA give you a reacharound last night?

Why do you think wingspan and hand size is so important?

 

[buzzdog]

Never stick up for a player on our roster here, it's sacrilege.

 

[buzzdog]

There is a quite a difference between saying "Allen cannot improve and it is all downhill from here," and "we shouldn't assume that Allen will improve.".

Why not just argue with other posters instead of inventing a strawman?

The following statements were written about a 23 year old player as though they are a given fact:

When you increase the minutes, but the end result is a flat line of production, he's got little upside left. Does that mean he can't improve? Not in the least, but what improvements you'll see are going to be minor things, not aspects that would increase his value or production on the floor.

I'll quite enjoy watching Allen be unable to be the one man defense that Gobert is, all while getting paid $24 million a year to do while we win 20 games a season.

Looking at Allen as a cornerstone of our team is the wrong idea. He's a solid complimentary piece that's going to give you his standard production when he's on the floor. He's not going to become a 20/10 all star that averages 3 blocks a game.
You pay him like a cornerstone, you're paying to be a lottery team.

I never claim to be an analyst or a scout, just a fan. I've watched the collection of clowns the Cavs have rolled out at the center position for years and Allen is better than all of them since maybe Z.

This is a disagreement over 3-5 million of Gilbert's fortune and whatever cap ramifications are involved. I don't know what the Cavs qualifying offer was for Allen, or what other teams will offer, or what he'll end up being paid. Maybe he ends up at 16 mil/yr. but I highly doubt it. But my OPINION is that he's worth more and he'll end up getting paid more, and we would pay more to get comparable talent to what he brings to the table. I have a hard time imagining that a 23 year old player who already has 4 years under his belt is at the stage of his career where he will plateau or drop off and that's what the comments I copied are very clearly saying as though it is inevitable.

For pushing back against that I get a bunch of dick-ish personal attacks. How dare I question or push back (without personal attacks) against such oracles of basketball knowledge. Then a moderator calls my opinion a strawman when the words above clearly indicate otherwise, instead of addressing the personal attacks towards me.

I get that people don't value centers any more but I don't think it is a given that the trend against centers will continue and there's signs of that changing across the league. I think Allen at least has good potential to improve on some of the skills that can increase his value on the floor. Just my opinion, he's not a guy you jettison over a few million bucks considering where salaries are at and where they're going.

That's my side of this and I'm done engaging on the subject. Not much entertainment value in continuing so maybe I'll just disengage if that's how things are here.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Never stick up for a player on our roster here, it's sacrilege.

Make an argument about the player. Attacking other posters sucks.

 

[buzzdog]

Make an argument about the player. Attacking other posters sucks.

I never attacked another poster. I pushed back against the idea that a 23 year old player with obvious physical talent and 4 years of experience has already peaked, and I agreed with someone else's opinion of the player's valuation. Then I was attacked for not agreeing with someone else's assessment. FFS.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I never attacked another poster. I pushed back against the idea that a 23 year old player with obvious physical talent and 4 years of experience has already peaked, and I agreed with someone else's opinion of the player's valuation. Then I was attacked for not agreeing with someone else's assessment. FFS.

Saying "sticking up for a player on our roster is sacrilege" sure isn't talking about the player.

 

[buzzdog]

Saying "sticking up for a player on our roster is sacrilege" sure isn't talking about the player.

As a general statement it is true more often than not.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

So, what is the line where people would let Allen walk, instead of signing him?

For this hypothetical, the offer sheet is signed. Sign and trade is not possible.

For me, 5/125 is about where I'd be comfortable letting him go rather than bringing him back.

 

[DCTribefan]

Make an argument about the player. Attacking other posters sucks.

I read it as a comment about board sentiment in general, not an attack on other posters or anyone in particular.