Lindor trade ideas

[CDAV45]

Assuming Reds don’t resign Bauer, they’ll have the $$ for Frankie. Question is whether they are content with a one-year window.

What if you could help the Reds on both fronts by sending McKenzie with Lindor, thereby allowing them to attempt to sign Lindor and adding a good SP at league minimum? The return would have to be hefty though. We're talking something like Senzel, Greene, Stephenson, Hendrick, and Hinds.

 

[Gson]

What if you could help the Reds on both fronts by sending McKenzie with Lindor, thereby allowing them to attempt to sign Lindor and adding a good SP at league minimum? The return would have to be hefty though. We're talking something like Senzel, Greene, Stephenson, Hendrick, and Hinds.

It's easy to see/hear why Senzel is in this kind of deal.. he's an immediate addition to a place of need for the Tribe.. if he can just have a full season of health, he could be a very good ML OF'er..

Hmmm.... Greene over Lodolo.. seems like just the opposite of the kind of SP the Indians gravitate towards.. When you look at what Bieber has become.. it's clear that the indians saw and relished the fact that, at the time in his development as a college pitcher, he could control the zone with all three of his offerings.. His first forays as a professional were eye opening w/r to K/BB ratios (10:1 to 40:1 during his first full season ball). Lodolo has that kind of control..

So, in addition to a bias towards a better control SP, there is no doubt Greene is an amazing talent that the Reds paid huge $$$ for.. It would be a huge PR hit to trade him away at this point.. imho.. so, we'll disagree on the pitcher.. but including either wouldn't prevent the deal from going forward... that is.. not a deal breaker if it's one or the other...

Hinds and Hendrick have the same offensive profile.. they can both swat.. Really swat.. odd considering one is a just a big guy/behemoth and the other more of a splendid splinter/sprinter.. Curios as to why Jose Israel Garcia SS wasn't considered here..but.. again.. two of these three names would be fine and not worthy of rising to the level of deal breaker..

Tyler Stephenson is a pure need spot that would be a deal killer if not included.. He is exactly what the Indians lack in their minor league system. Only Luis Campusano and Keibert Ruiz rate as available backstops for the Tribe to consider.. If the Reds dig their heels in on Stephenson.. a third team (padres or dodgers) could join the party by offering up one of these back stops..

Thoughts?..

 

[CDAV45]

It's easy to see/hear why Senzel is in this kind of deal.. he's an immediate addition to a place of need for the Tribe.. if he can just have a full season of health, he could be a very good ML OF'er..

Hmmm.... Greene over Lodolo.. seems like just the opposite of the kind of SP the Indians gravitate towards.. When you look at what Bieber has become.. it's clear that the indians saw and relished the fact that, at the time in his development as a college pitcher, he could control the zone with all three of his offerings.. His first forays as a professional were eye opening w/r to K/BB ratios (10:1 to 40:1 during his first full season ball). Lodolo has that kind of control..

So, in addition to a bias towards a better control SP, there is no doubt Greene is an amazing talent that the Reds paid huge $$$ for.. It would be a huge PR hit to trade him away at this point.. imho.. so, we'll disagree on the pitcher.. but including either wouldn't prevent the deal from going forward... that is.. not a deal breaker if it's one or the other...

Hinds and Hendrick have the same offensive profile.. they can both swat.. Really swat.. odd considering one is a just a big guy/behemoth and the other more of a splendid splinter/sprinter.. Curios as to why Jose Israel Garcia SS wasn't considered here..but.. again.. two of these three names would be fine and not worthy of rising to the level of deal breaker..

Tyler Stephenson is a pure need spot that would be a deal killer if not included.. He is exactly what the Indians lack in their minor league system. Only Luis Campusano and Keibert Ruiz rate as available backstops for the Tribe to consider.. If the Reds dig their heels in on Stephenson.. a third team (padres or dodgers) could join the party by offering up one of these back stops..

Thoughts?..

I wouldn't relegate Senzel to the OF only at this time. His positional flexibility could come in handy. I think he's on the cusp of breaking out and a healthy season would go a long way toward making that happen.

I chose Greene over Lodolo because I don't think the Reds come off of Lodolo. He's near ready, their top prospect and they need SP. The PR hit would be trading Lodolo, not Greene.

Hinds and Hendrick are exceptional prospects in positions this organization needs. We don't need Garcia and he gives the Reds a fallback should they be unable to extend Lindor.

I agree. No Stephenson.........no deal unless a 3rd team gets involved as you mentioned.

 

[kidduck]

On High Heat today, Tom Hamilton said that the Blue Jays were the leading team for getting Lindor. He
cited Shapiros' presence there and history with Lindor.

Here's where MLB site described Blue Jay season prior to Covid season:

16) Toronto Blue Jays
2019 preseason rank: 5
2019 midseason rank: 10
Top 100 Prospects: Nate Pearson, RHP (No. 8), Jordan Groshans, SS (No. 75), Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP (No. 98)
Top 2020 rookie: Nate Pearson, RHP
Though Toronto’s system took a hit with the graduations of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, they still have one baseball’s premier pitching prospects headlining a system that stands out more for its depth than high-end talent.

 

[xmasbuck]

I wouldn't relegate Senzel to the OF only at this time. His positional flexibility could come in handy. I think he's on the cusp of breaking out and a healthy season would go a long way toward making that happen.

I chose Greene over Lodolo because I don't think the Reds come off of Lodolo. He's near ready, their top prospect and they need SP. The PR hit would be trading Lodolo, not Greene.

Hinds and Hendrick are exceptional prospects in positions this organization needs. We don't need Garcia and he gives the Reds a fallback should they be unable to extend Lindor.

I agree. No Stephenson.........no deal unless a 3rd team gets involved as you mentioned.

of course, the nice thing is that greene has already had his tj surgery - hasnt pitched since july, 2018

reds aint gonna trade stephenson

 

[CDAV45]

of course, the nice thing is that greene has already had his tj surgery - hasnt pitched since july, 2081

reds aint gonna trade stephenson

Don't really know so I can't argue with you about Stephenson. There are other teams to trade with.

 

[Steve_424]

On High Heat today, Tom Hamilton said that the Blue Jays were the leading team for getting Lindor. He
cited Shapiros' presence there and history with Lindor.

Here's where MLB site described Blue Jay season prior to Covid season:

16) Toronto Blue Jays
2019 preseason rank: 5
2019 midseason rank: 10
Top 100 Prospects: Nate Pearson, RHP (No. 8), Jordan Groshans, SS (No. 75), Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP (No. 98)
Top 2020 rookie: Nate Pearson, RHP
Though Toronto’s system took a hit with the graduations of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, they still have one baseball’s premier pitching prospects headlining a system that stands out more for its depth than high-end talent.

Our Tom Hamilton? I am bummed I missed it.

Did they mention any players?

 

[CDAV45]

On High Heat today, Tom Hamilton said that the Blue Jays were the leading team for getting Lindor. He
cited Shapiros' presence there and history with Lindor.

Here's where MLB site described Blue Jay season prior to Covid season:

16) Toronto Blue Jays
2019 preseason rank: 5
2019 midseason rank: 10
Top 100 Prospects: Nate Pearson, RHP (No. 8), Jordan Groshans, SS (No. 75), Simeon Woods Richardson, RHP (No. 98)
Top 2020 rookie: Nate Pearson, RHP
Though Toronto’s system took a hit with the graduations of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, they still have one baseball’s premier pitching prospects headlining a system that stands out more for its depth than high-end talent.

I just don't see the match, but whatever. They're not giving Pearson up and we don't really need him. Groshans is redundant in this system. Same for Woods-Richardson. Gurriel would be a welcome addition. I'd say the Indians are most interested in Biggio, but is he available?

 

[sportscoach]

Our Tom Hamilton? I am bummed I missed it.

Did they mention any players?

I am guessing it will be like a Jansen, Groshans and an OF, but its going to be hard to say.

I think its who adds an extra prospect that may get the deal sealed in my mind

Don't really know so I can't argue with you about Stephenson. There are other teams to trade with.

Stephenson has done amazing for me in my recent OOTP playthrough, so I am okay with getting him for nostalgic reasons, but honestly his prospect profile does look pretty good. I wouldn't be against getting him in a deal at all.

Groshans also looks like he should be a legit big leaguer, thats all that matters in the end. He can hit so they will find a spot for him regardless. He won't play SS anyways.

 

[Gson]

I just don't see the match, but whatever. They're not giving Pearson up and we don't really need him. Groshans is redundant in this system. Same for Woods-Richardson. Gurriel would be a welcome addition. I'd say the Indians are most interested in Biggio, but is he available?

@CDav.. If the deal is Francisco Lindor for Lourdes Gurriel jr (OF), Simeon Woods-Richardson (SP) and Jordan Groshans (SS/3B)... That would be a huge haul..and not likely to happen.. If the Indians add in someone like Logan Allen or Scotty Moss it might improve the chances. Both or these SP's would be needed by the Jays and would benefit from pitching against the NYY's as LHSP's in the Bronx...

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is the prize.. He's a ML'er.. has had a break out season and can be counted on for four or five years at a very reasonable price. He hits and can play adequate to more than adequate in the OF.. primarily as a LF'er..

The pitcher, SWR, could be a flip or could be kept (I'd keep him because he's everything you want in a young, & I do mean young hurler) .. At his best he has a strong well controlled and commanded four pitch mix.. and that's pretty much all the time.. He has a major league body and the Mets were NUTS for letting him go in the Marcus Stroman trade to the Jays.. He is or will be near ML ready for 2021.. A team like the Yankees would KILL to get this kind of guy. Wouldn't it be poetic that instead of sending one of the Indians pitching prospects to the NYY's to fill out the rest of the Indians outfield needs.. we send one of Toronto's to NY to beat hell out of the Jays?.. I kind of like that.. Of course.. we get Clint Frazier...

Groshans probably won't happen. He is a SS by trade but, with his size is probably better suited for 3B.


btw, not that it matters.. What's wrong with redundancy with blue chip prospects?

 

[kidduck]

Our Tom Hamilton? I am bummed I missed it.

Did they mention any players?

Our Tom Hamilton? I am bummed I missed it.

Did they mention any players?

No players mentioned.

 

[Kevalier]

@CDav.. If the deal is Francisco Lindor for Lourdes Gurriel jr (OF), Simeon Woods-Richardson (SP) and Jordan Groshans (SS/3B)... That would be a huge haul..and not likely to happen.. If the Indians add in someone like Logan Allen or Scotty Moss it might improve the chances. Both or these SP's would be needed by the Jays and would benefit from pitching against the NYY's as LHSP's in the Bronx...

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is the prize.. He's a ML'er.. has had a break out season and can be counted on for four or five years at a very reasonable price. He hits and can play adequate to more than adequate in the OF.. primarily as a LF'er..

The pitcher, SWR, could be a flip or could be kept (I'd keep him because he's everything you want in a young, & I do mean young hurler) .. At his best he has a strong well controlled and commanded four pitch mix.. and that's pretty much all the time.. He has a major league body and the Mets were NUTS for letting him go in the Marcus Stroman trade to the Jays.. He is or will be near ML ready for 2021.. A team like the Yankees would KILL to get this kind of guy. Wouldn't it be poetic that instead of sending one of the Indians pitching prospects to the NYY's to fill out the rest of the Indians outfield needs.. we send one of Toronto's to NY to beat hell out of the Jays?.. I kind of like that.. Of course.. we get Clint Frazier...

Groshans probably won't happen. He is a SS by trade but, with his size is probably better suited for 3B.


btw, not that it matters.. What's wrong with redundancy with blue chip prospects?

With the Blue Jays drafting Austin Martin this year at five overall, who has been compared to Anthony Rendon and labeled a “plus, plus defender at 3B” Groshans is now more expendable for Toronto. Another top prospect of theirs is Orelvis Martinez, who projects to be a 3B as well.

 

[EdMonix11]

I mean, if the Jays are renting Lindor for a year, it doesn't really make any sense for them to include someone like Gurriel Jr.-- a move that would basically cancel out Lindor's offensive value.

 

[Criznit]

I mean, if the Jays are renting Lindor for a year, it doesn't really make any sense for them to include someone like Gurriel Jr.-- a move that would basically cancel out Lindor's offensive value.

Agree to a degree.

Lindor's return should be in quality prospects, not ML ready types. On a whole I think we are overestimating his value considering all the factors. Get the BEST players you can for Lindor, if they are ML players or A-ballers it makes no difference at this point. We are starting to play catch up with the CHiSox and Twins - load the system, forget the stopgap.

 

[Kevalier]

I mean, if the Jays are renting Lindor for a year, it doesn't really make any sense for them to include someone like Gurriel Jr.-- a move that would basically cancel out Lindor's offensive value.

While Gurriel may be unlikely, I do think the Indians will seek at least one player from the Blue Jays who they can insert into their lineup next season. Rowdy Tellez would be a fit, as Vladdy appears to be their 1B going forward and Tellez doesn't even reach arbitration until 2022. He can take over for Santana at 1B, while Naylor stays in LF.