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Moves the Indians should make for the 2nd half

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petes999 said:
Nothing against what you said Criznit as I don't disagree with the Rosario value and why I put him below Mercado in our options. Yet, my point is how BAD our options are and having a guy who hit .200 in April and so far in July (small sample) but .300 in May/June is not our worse option.

Yet, what I do have an issue with his squinting our eyes and saying an almost washed up prospect who has had a hot end of June and July is a better option. We got to wait and see on Benson and even Mercado as a hot few weeks is like saying Rosario is a star in May and June.

We NEED a true full-time CF for next year. Mercado may be that but it is way to soon to pencil him in. Johnson having a few spring training games where he is the "best" person out there is a joke to count on him after a disastrous 2020 so far. Benson and Palacios are good options in mid-summer after option 1A/1B fail but they are still in AA for a reason (after 2 years off for Palacios and years of struggles for Benson). What I read into Bimbo notes on Benson is he is just putting years of BP instruction into game situation and (per me) needs to be groomed (less stress) to maintain his current muscle memory into games. Worse thing for him is put him in CF in April under bright lights where he presses and goes back to bad habits, like he has continually done in the past. After these options who do we have? Jack squat!!! Zimmer should be tossed to the side of road.

This is where we differ. I rather have Rosario just as an adequate place holder if he works on CF this fall (more than the joke of 2-3 weeks of spring training and thus why he failed so badly in the field) than our other options other then Mercado (if he keeps up his hot streak). Rosario is at least a .250 middle of road/streaky option. And, if finding a CF for prospect was so easy ... we would be hearing rumors last year or this year other than DeShields (Yahoo!!!!.... sarcasm).

Rosario has some trade value but save it to put into a bigger package for CF prospect (for a team in need of just a bat/help for injury) than just jettison for prospects out of desperation. Trades are hard. Sometimes the team in need that has what you need (CF prospect) wants that replacement MLB bat. Why trade it away too soon for prospects you don't need ASAP. Rosario value now and/or in Oct won't be that far different (about 16 on trade value chart -- Adell for comparison is in 40s). Be patient as filling CF need is bigger issue than having more prospects 2-4 years out.
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I agree with this. I have no issue with letting Amed loose in the OF/CF for 2022, but in almost 500 games, this season is right inline with his previous production. So if we keep him around (and it is likely we do) set him free in CF and see what happens.

I am concerned he won't ever breakout/improve offensively. His current batting line suggest he better be a plus defender, which he is not so he better get it going in CF next year, or he WILL have to be replaced.

Edit. If the opportunity presents itself to improve our OF/CF externally somehow, he shouldn't be a factor in that decision overall.
 
CATS44 said:
Me thinks that many folks are way underestimating Amed Rosario.
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The only reason why I am not against trading Amed is because he is in arbitration and got 2.4 mil this season I believe so he is due a raise and is a free agent in 24. So if we can get a Miller plus more prospect back from the Reds for him, I feel like we almost gotta take it. I am not saying we have to trade him, I just feel if we can get a slight overpay at least, it could help us long term
 
Criznit said:
I disagree, would you care to elaborate?
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Sure.

People over look the fact that Amed is still pretty young.

We get excited if Bradley or Mercado or Harold have a good week or month. The get bugged eyed when Johnson and Miller go on a tear in the minors..Amed is younger than Mercado and Harold, and the same age as Bradley, Johnson, and Clement...only a year older than Miller.

We go gaga over Zimmers and Mercados speed, although Amed is faster.

We shrug when it's pointed out that Amed was playing regularly in NY probably two years early. But if he had spent those two years in Columbus, we would be insisting that he was a core player. In addition, he has been screwed with defensively by the Indians.

Amed uses the entire field, hitting the ball the other way as much as he pulls it. In spite of his all fields approach, his hard hit % is higher by far than it has ever been.

And he is the epitome of a player who fits the Tribe culture. Tito and the FO hold him in high regard.
 
CATS44 said:
Sure.

People over look the fact that Amed is still pretty young.

We get excited if Bradley or Mercado or Harold have a good week or month. The get bugged eyed when Johnson and Miller go on a tear in the minors..Amed is younger than Mercado and Harold, and the same age as Bradley, Johnson, and Clement...only a year older than Miller.

We go gaga over Zimmers and Mercados speed, although Amed is faster.

We shrug when it's pointed out that Amed was playing regularly in NY probably two years early. But if he had spent those two years in Columbus, we would be insisting that he was a core player. In addition, he has been screwed with defensively by the Indians.

Amed uses the entire field, hitting the ball the other way as much as he pulls it. In spite of his all fields approach, his hard hit % is higher by far than it has ever been.

And he is the epitome of a player who fits the Tribe culture. Tito and the FO hold him in high regard.
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The question is, is he apart of this team past 23? He will be a free in 24 and in 22, he will be one of our top paid players on the roster... Can we merit that for a non-catcher position hitting a career .700 ops?
 
sportscoach said:
The question is, is he apart of this team past 23? He will be a free in 24 and in 22, he will be one of our top paid players on the roster... Can we merit that for a non-catcher position hitting a career .700 ops?
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Not if he's a career .700 at that point.
 
CATS44 said:
Sure.

People over look the fact that Amed is still pretty young.

We get excited if Bradley or Mercado or Harold have a good week or month. The get bugged eyed when Johnson and Miller go on a tear in the minors..Amed is younger than Mercado and Harold, and the same age as Bradley, Johnson, and Clement...only a year older than Miller.

We go gaga over Zimmers and Mercados speed, although Amed is faster.

We shrug when it's pointed out that Amed was playing regularly in NY probably two years early. But if he had spent those two years in Columbus, we would be insisting that he was a core player. In addition, he has been screwed with defensively by the Indians.

Amed uses the entire field, hitting the ball the other way as much as he pulls it. In spite of his all fields approach, his hard hit % is higher by far than it has ever been.

And he is the epitome of a player who fits the Tribe culture. Tito and the FO hold him in high regard.
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what fans think about zimmer or mercado or anyone else has nothing to do with rosario's abilities or results - he's pushing 2000 major league at bats - he's a below average hitter - below average power - below average glove - his upside at this point looks to be a likable JAG
 
xmasbuck said:
what fans think about zimmer or mercado or anyone else has nothing to do with rosario's abilities or results - he's pushing 2000 major league at bats - he's a below average hitter - below average power - below average glove - his upside at this point looks to be a likable JAG
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I can't say I agree or disagree with you at this time Buck. The speed and athleticism of Amed influences a game for sure, and while he doesn't rate very well defensively I don't think he's losing games with his defense either. The low OPS and OPS+ catch my eye for sure, but this team needs Amed on the bases. I'm more concerned with his OBP than any other stat. That's where Amed's value lies IMO.
 
xmasbuck said:
what fans think about zimmer or mercado or anyone else has nothing to do with rosario's abilities or results - he's pushing 2000 major league at bats - he's a below average hitter - below average power - below average glove - his upside at this point looks to be a likable JAG
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Yeah, below average overall, but he won't be 26 until November. He's not a finished product, IMO. Cats44 made a great point - he's the same age as Bradley yet he has nearly 2,000 at-bats.

Amed chases too many bad pitches and rarely walks. But the key for me is he's hitting .344 with RISP and .321 with RISP and two out. His best at-bats are with RISP. I like the way he goes oppo when we need a hit rather than try to pull the ball. I say leave him right where he is and let's see what happens over the next 74 games.

With his speed and athleticism he has the potential to be a superior defensive centerfielder who can hit .270 with great speed on the bases. That's a useful player that could contribute to a winning team in Cleveland or be a decent trade chip if we develop somebody better.
 
I personally have no qualms keeping Amed nor trading him either. I just don't know where he stands long term within this organization. If he is a stopgap, I think we could trade him when/if the offer is what we want...
 
sportscoach said:
I personally have no qualms keeping Amed nor trading him either. I just don't know where he stands long term within this organization. If he is a stopgap, I think we could trade him when/if the offer is what we want...
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Amed is a stopgap in 1 role (SS in 2021). After this year I do not see him at SS again with CLE with all the other SS options (Gimenez/ Arias/ Freeman/ etc)..

The question moving forward becomes is he a long term answer (for 3 yrs plus) in the OF (mainly CF) or a stopgap out there until other options take their place in the CLE OF picture.

Personally I am willing to trade/ release a number of people on the CLE roster but Amed is someone I would keep holding onto now & revisit how things are at this point in 2022/ 2023..
 
MadThinker88 said:
Amed is a stopgap in 1 role (SS in 2021). After this year I do not see him at SS again with CLE with all the other SS options (Gimenez/ Arias/ Freeman/ etc)..

The question moving forward becomes is he a long term answer (for 3 yrs plus) in the OF (mainly CF) or a stopgap out there until other options take their place in the CLE OF picture.

Personally I am willing to trade/ release a number of people on the CLE roster but Amed is someone I would keep holding onto now & revisit how things are at this point in 2022/ 2023..
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I am willing to trade him only at the right price, but it would have to upgrade us in 22-beyond in a sense, but yeah otherwise he is better to keep
 
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