sportscoach
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Most places dropped Arias below Rocchio, what do you think of their top?
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National Media and other poster's 2023 Prospect Lists
- Thread starter petes999
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Most places dropped Arias below Rocchio, what do you think of their top?
CDAV45
Small ball is for pussies!
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I noticed that too. Bit of a head scratcher to me, but what do I know? I don't think many of us here wouldn't rank Arias in front of Rocchio, but I will say that Arias' ceiling is higher offensively. I'll also say that I feel Rocchio is more likely to reach his ceiling though so take that for what it's worth. It will be interesting to see what Arias can do, and I firmly believe we're going to see what he can do from the start of the 23 season.
Out of the Rafters at the Q
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In terms of value, I rank Rocchio ahead of Arias.
I also rank Valera and Angel ahead of Arias.
CDAV45
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I would agree although there might be a discussion around Arias being ahead of Valera.
MadThinker88
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Here are 2 more recent list releases & a list from earlier in the offseason...
PitcherList
Posted 1/9/23
https://www.pitcherlist.com/cleveland-guardians-top-fantasy-baseball-prospects-2023/
Razzball
Posted 1/11/23 (more fantasy focused)
https://razzball.com/cleveland-guardians-top-10-prospects-for-2023-fantasy-baseball/
Prospect361.com
Posted: Unknown (most likely in early Nov '22)
https://prospect361.com/al-team-prospects/Cleveland-Guardians/#Valera
PitcherList
Posted 1/9/23
https://www.pitcherlist.com/cleveland-guardians-top-fantasy-baseball-prospects-2023/
| # | Player | # | Player |
| 1 | Daniel Espino, RHP | 9 | Chase DeLauter, OF |
| 2 | Gavin Williams, RHP | 10 | Jhonkensy Noel, 1B |
| 3 | Tanner Bibee, RHP | 11 | Juan Brito, 2B |
| 4 | George Valera, OF | 12 | Angel Martinez, SS |
| 5 | Brayan Rocchio, 2B/SS | 13 | Will Brennan, OF |
| 6 | Bo Naylor, C | 14 | Jaison Chourio, OF |
| 7 | Cody Morris, RHP | 15 | Xzavion Curry, SP |
| 8 | Logan T. Allen, LHP |
Razzball
Posted 1/11/23 (more fantasy focused)
https://razzball.com/cleveland-guardians-top-10-prospects-for-2023-fantasy-baseball/
| # | Player | # | Player | # | Player |
| 1 | RHP Daniel Espino | 6 | C Bo Naylor | HM | Juan Brito |
| 2 | RHP Tanner Bibee | 7 | OF Chase DeLauter | HM | Brayan Rocchio |
| 3 | OF George Valera | 8 | SS Angel Martinez | HM | Logan Allen |
| 4 | RHP Gavin Williams | 9 | RHP Cody Morris | HM | Jhonkensy Noel |
| 5 | OF Will Brennan | 10 | OF Jaison Chourio | HM | Gabriel Arias |
Prospect361.com
Posted: Unknown (most likely in early Nov '22)
https://prospect361.com/al-team-prospects/Cleveland-Guardians/#Valera
| # | Player | # | Player | # | Player |
| 1 | George Valera (OF) | 7 | Gabriel Arias (SS) | 13 | Peyton Battenfield (RHP) |
| 2 | Daniel Espino (RHP) | 8 | Chase DeLauter (OF) | 14 | Justin Campbell (RHP) |
| 3 | Brayan Rocchio (2B) | 9 | Angel Martinez (SS) | 15 | Jhonkensy Noel (3B) |
| 4 | Bo Naylor (C) | 10 | Logan T. Allen (LHP) | 16 | Jaison Chourio (OF) |
| 5 | Gavin Williams (RHP) | 11 | Jose Tena (SS) | 17 | Xzavion Curry (RHP) |
| 6 | Tanner Bibee (RHP) | 12 | Nolan Jones (3B) | 18 | Hunter Gaddis (RHP) |
Gson
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This is a name, imho, that has everything needed (stuff, physicality & mindset) to rocket up through the Guardians system... He's around the same spot as Cody Morris was two years ago.. There is a lot to like him and his weapons... & it has little to do with his FB velo.. I'm going to wager that ONLY Zach Plesac is as athletic as Justin Campbell.. & with it, the kind of command and control that makes him the kind of SP candidate that the Guardians bring from relative obscurity to "holy shit" level..
Thoughts?..
Cleveland Guardians 2023 Top 30 Prospects — Prospects Live
The Cleveland Guardians Top 30 Prospects for 2023 led by RHP Daniel Espino
www.prospectslive.com
We landed 2 of top 10 RHP prospects on mlb pipeline … Bibee missed out
www.mlb.com
Here are the Top 10 RHP prospects for 2023
MLB Pipeline will reveal its 2023 Top 100 Prospects list at 7 p.m. ET on Thursday, Jan. 26, with a one-hour show on MLB Network and MLB.com. Leading up to the release of the Top 100, we'll examine baseball's top 10 prospects at each position. Now, this is a fun
www.mlb.com
Cleveland is the Reason
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We landed 2 of top 10 RHP prospects on mlb pipeline … Bibee missed out
Here are the Top 10 RHP prospects for 2023
MLB Pipeline will reveal its 2023 Top 100 Prospects list at 7 p.m. ET on Thursday, Jan. 26, with a one-hour show on MLB Network and MLB.com. Leading up to the release of the Top 100, we'll examine baseball's top 10 prospects at each position. Now, this is a fun
Curious why Bibee should be included in your mind?
I know he put up nice stats, but that’s the extent of what I know. Too old to be privy to finding info on players outside of the major publications and they don’t even have much on him.
I wrote the comment more from the perspective that we have the Big 3 and he was the one that is always (or most always) 3rd on our lists of pitchers before the big gap to Allen Jr. -- and thus the one left off type of comment so other 2 on the list are obvious.
Yet, where Espino and Williams have the power/speed but lack control at times .... Bibee has always had the control but has been the surprise with the speed ... he was up to 97/98 this year sitting 95-96 I think but rumor has it hit 100 this off-season. I am sometimes hesitant to believe the top speed as they need to maintain it during the season but Bibee was holding that 95 or so late in game/late in season. Thus, he may not hit 100 during the season but he is nearing the Espino/Williams top speeds if he can sit 96/97 for a game which with his control will put him in top-100 prospect lists soon (if not already). And, if he continues last year success, can and should be top-50 by mid-season.
That prospect live article just at top of page had a good write-up on the top-3. If you look at grades, Williams and Espino have slightly higher upside but Bibee is closing the gap with a higher floor.
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sportscoach
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Honestly, think of Bibee as a harder throwing Bieber in a sense. High floor SP prospect...
What is interesting about him is his fastball development. He added about 5 mph since he got to Cleveland's development while not really losing any control. His extremely low walk rate, with plus command makes him probably the safest SP prospect in baseball in my mind. Like I would bet very good money Bibee at worst will be a #3 on any MLB roster... He's not as flashy/has the true #1 upside as Williams and Espino, but as long as he doesn't get injured, he has very little bust potential... He is as honestly of a sure bet SP prospect as you can find...
MadThinker88
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If you want info about Tanner Bibee, you are in the right place..
Here is some background on him via the Covering the Corner website (and Brian Hemminger in particular)
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Selected in the fifth round of the 2021 MLB draft for his elite command of the strike zone with plus secondary pitches, Bibee might already be the Cleveland pitching factory’s biggest success story.
Just one year earlier, Bibee was topping out at about 90 miles per hour with his fastball. He spent time at Driveline, where he added about 3-4 mph to his velocity with their weighted ball and strength training programs. Later, Cleveland’s pitching coaches unlocked an adjustment with his pitching mechanics that added another 3-4 mph to his fastball and he suddenly was topping out at 99 mph.
And he still had that elite command.
Bibee began his pro career at High-A Lake County, where he blew away hitters to the tune of 13.12 strikeouts per nine innings, an elite 3.04 FIP, and a 2.59 ERA over 12 starts spanning 59 innings.
Obviously, he was ready to be promoted, but I don’t think even the top Cleveland brass were prepared for the dominance that was about to ensue at Double-A.
Bibee was promoted to Akron in July, where he quickly garnered Eastern League Pitcher of the Week honors.
He then earned Pitcher of the Month for August and by the end of the season, he was named the Pitcher of the Year for the Eastern League.
Over 13 starts, now stretched out and spanning 73.2 innings, Bibee was flat-out dominant, dropping his ERA to 1.83, his FIP to 2.61, and his walk rate even dropped to 1.71. The only thing that didn’t improve at Double-A was his strikeout rate, which fell to 9.9 batters per nine innings.
Bibee has nothing left to prove at Double-A and should (hopefully) begin the 2023 season at Triple-A, where he’ll be knocking on the door for a chance with Cleveland while trying to leapfrog several of the spot starters from last year.
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Here is some info on Bibee from the now defunct GBI website...
3. Tanner Bibee
Age: 23 T: R Level: Double-A Rule 5 status: 2024
Outlook: There’s an argument to be made that Bibee belongs over the other two here due to health and polish. He could be big league ready sooner than both. A 2024 40 man deadline is maybe stopping him to not muck up the 40 man too early (more than Cleveland has already done) but Bibee looks like he’ll be ready to be a major league arm at the top or middle of a rotation in short order here.
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And here is info from the recently released CLE top 10 list by Baseball Prospectus
| 3. Tanner Bibee Pos: P Born: 1999-03-05 B: Right T: Right H: 6′ 2″ W: 205 lbs. History: Drafted in the fifth round of the 2021 draft, Cal-State Fullerton; signed for $259,400. Previous Rank: N/A Major League ETA: 2023 |
| Year | Team | Level | Age | W | L | SV | G | GS | IP | H | HR | BB% | K% | K | GB% | BABIP | WHIP | ERA | DRA |
| 2022 | AKR | AA | 23 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 13 | 13 | 73.7 | 51 | 4 | 4.9% | 28.4% | 81 | 34.2% | .260 | 0.88 | 1.83 | 4.20 |
| 2022 | LC | Hi-A | 23 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 12 | 12 | 59.0 | 50 | 8 | 5.6% | 37.2% | 86 | 37.4% | .344 | 1.07 | 2.59 | 4.27 |
The Report: The Guardians pitching development nowadays is just the “He can’t keep getting away with it” GIF. Bibee was drafted as a fourth-year college arm with a pedestrian fastball who posted similarly pedestrian K-rates for the Titans. He did have a suite of polished secondaries and good command. Well, guess what? He now sits in the mid-90s and his slider has tightened up into a swing-and-miss pitch with 12-5 break that goes off a cliff on batters. Bibee offers a second breaking ball look, a more traditional, slower 12-6 curve, but his change is a third potential above-average offering. He moves it around well against lefties, chucking it to the front hip and working it back, or using its good, late fade to get whiffs. He’ll double up with it as well. The stuff was backed up by the performance, utter dominance of High-A and Double-A in 2022, giving the Guardians another close-to-ready mid-rotation arm with upside past that.
OFP: 60 / no. 3 starter
Variance: Medium. Bibee only has a short track record of this kind of stuff and sometimes pitchers give back a bit of these kinds of velocity gains. Still, you can’t argue with the development track record of the team or the concrete improvements of the player, and if we give Bibee full credit he is closer to a number two starter than a number three.
Jesse Roche’s Fantasy Take: Bibee throws strikes, lots of strikes, resulting in a miniscule 5.2% walk rate. At the same time, he also misses plenty of bats—placing fourth in K-BB% among pitching prospects with at least 100 IP. Bibee is a tad fly-ball prone, and his fastball sometimes operates best as a get-ahead offering than anything else, but he fits the modern Guardians’ pitching dev philosophy to a tee. Remember, we were once skeptical of Shane Bieber as well. Bibee is a top-100 dynasty prospect.
I think the only problem with Bibee and future success is the lack of a track record with his new found speed. IF he has a good 2-3 months to start the season, people are going to have their jaws just drop. It is easy to write him off as a one year wonder, especially has his July and August are based on sub .260 BABip. However, all the other months, are around .300 or over. However, his OPS steadily declined through the year mainly because of that elevation that hitters can get on his fastball (his weakness) seemed to correct itself even in AA with bigger hitters. His May numbers show 5 HRs in 5 games. However, in the rest of the year, he limited his HRs to 2 per month or less (0 in Sept with 3 games). As long as that trend continues, he will do just fine. And, as others said, keeping his K/W ratio around 5-6+ for whole season, keeps him from getting into trouble with big innings.
Guys, this is why the Guardians appear to just be treading water a bit for now and not going after big names. We can criticize them for not adding a big 3rd pitcher to add to Bieber and McK to do an extended playoff run (having the guns to match the #1/#2 seed when you have to throw your #3/4 pitcher against their Ace due to bye scheduling). Yet, even if Bieber does not sign a contract, if things play out, you have McK as your 4th best pitcher (but Ace in leadership). That is why they are holding off and other teams are testing their resolve in not trading one of them even for a Murphy (willing to gamble and take less than fold for one of the 3 because you pushed to hard).
Honestly, I can see why Bibee was left off the top 10 list. I didn't really expect it. I can see him around 60-70 prospect level with top 100 comes out. However, come next year, if we don't have a WS type run coming this year (where they risk rookie eligibility on one of these 3), you have the possibility to have 3 of the top 5-8 pitcher prospects going into next pre-season. Lefties -- Harrison & Tiedemann (Liberatore will lose eligibility this year) and Righties -- Painter, Perez, Abel, Miller/Stone (and a couple of these will lose eligibility) - that would be 3 of top 30 prospects in all of baseball where the success ratio that Cats hates is much higher. But, Espino needs to be healthy and Williams will be control as his walk rate/home run ticked up in AA.
Guys, this is why the Guardians appear to just be treading water a bit for now and not going after big names. We can criticize them for not adding a big 3rd pitcher to add to Bieber and McK to do an extended playoff run (having the guns to match the #1/#2 seed when you have to throw your #3/4 pitcher against their Ace due to bye scheduling). Yet, even if Bieber does not sign a contract, if things play out, you have McK as your 4th best pitcher (but Ace in leadership). That is why they are holding off and other teams are testing their resolve in not trading one of them even for a Murphy (willing to gamble and take less than fold for one of the 3 because you pushed to hard).
Honestly, I can see why Bibee was left off the top 10 list. I didn't really expect it. I can see him around 60-70 prospect level with top 100 comes out. However, come next year, if we don't have a WS type run coming this year (where they risk rookie eligibility on one of these 3), you have the possibility to have 3 of the top 5-8 pitcher prospects going into next pre-season. Lefties -- Harrison & Tiedemann (Liberatore will lose eligibility this year) and Righties -- Painter, Perez, Abel, Miller/Stone (and a couple of these will lose eligibility) - that would be 3 of top 30 prospects in all of baseball where the success ratio that Cats hates is much higher. But, Espino needs to be healthy and Williams will be control as his walk rate/home run ticked up in AA.
Just another tidbit today from Prospect1500 (high on Brito) from their Colorado listing
13. Nolan Jones, OF, 24, MLB
Perhaps the Rockies view the former Guardians 2nd round pick as an ideal Coors Field hitter. I was surprised Colorado would trade Juan Brito for Jones (Brito one of my favorites, and perhaps a signal that Amador will be moving over to second base). Jones recorded a .309 OBP in 86 AB’s for Cleveland. Much like Toglia, it appears the left handed hitter’s time is now.
www.prospects1500.com
13. Nolan Jones, OF, 24, MLB
Perhaps the Rockies view the former Guardians 2nd round pick as an ideal Coors Field hitter. I was surprised Colorado would trade Juan Brito for Jones (Brito one of my favorites, and perhaps a signal that Amador will be moving over to second base). Jones recorded a .309 OBP in 86 AB’s for Cleveland. Much like Toglia, it appears the left handed hitter’s time is now.
Colorado Rockies Top 50 Prospects (2023)
Brian Fonseca looks at all levels of the farm system and delivers his new Colorado Rockies Top 50 prospects heading into 2023.
www.prospects1500.com