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(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

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Here's an article with quotes from Joe Woods, valuing quickness and lighter linebackers.


I'm feeling confident TakiTaki 's destiny is short yardage specialist and special teams contributor.

I think Woods realizes he has a full toolshed finally for different defensive packages - these quotes from him have me pretty excited.

I was pretty critical of him last year but this is an entirely new defense with players he's had a hand in picking for scheme fit. I think we have the potential to be a top 5-10 defense if health is on our side.
 
Defensive line is still my main concern. Seems like Woods is there too, albeit I may be just attributing my gut instinct to someone that actually understands football.

The linebackers are a group that is good at using their speed and athleticism to overcome size mismatches in the middle of the field.

If someone is worried about controlling the clock and pace of the game, which is what I think a big part of this offense was last year, then missing Vernon's natural edge-sealing and Richardson's ability to eat space is more of a concern than still not having an answer for Travis Kelce (who does? lol).
 
Defensive line is still my main concern. Seems like Woods is there too, albeit I may be just attributing my gut instinct to someone that actually understands football.

The linebackers are a group that is good at using their speed and athleticism to overcome size mismatches in the middle of the field.

If someone is worried about controlling the clock and pace of the game, which is what I think a big part of this offense was last year, then missing Vernon's natural edge-sealing and Richardson's ability to eat space is more of a concern than still not having an answer for Travis Kelce (who does? lol).
I think a positive is Clowney can really play the run and set the edge well. The idea behind Billings is to eat blockers inside. So the potential is there for the line. Need health and a rookie to step up for depth
 
I think a positive is Clowney can really play the run and set the edge well. The idea behind Billings is to eat blockers inside. So the potential is there for the line. Need health and a rookie to step up for depth
When it comes to specifically closing down lanes, Vernon and Richardson are better than who the Browns are replacing them with.

Clowney is more productive as a run defender because he gets after the runner, but teams will still find success running at him if he gets blocked.

I really like Billings, but I thought he was a downgrade on Richardson last year, let alone after a year of him not playing. To your point, I did say “filling space” and Billings is absolutely as good at that.

I don’t know, man. The consensus is that the defensive line has improved and wisdom of the crowds is a statistical phenomenon. I’m probably wrong. I just think - when it comes to worrying about the short passing game through the middle and the run game - I’m more afraid of our defensive line not doing its job than our linebackers and secondary.
 
When it comes to specifically closing down lanes, Vernon and Richardson are better than who the Browns are replacing them with.

Clowney is more productive as a run defender because he gets after the runner, but teams will still find success running at him if he gets blocked.

I really like Billings, but I thought he was a downgrade on Richardson last year, let alone after a year of him not playing. To your point, I did say “filling space” and Billings is absolutely as good at that.

I don’t know, man. The consensus is that the defensive line has improved and wisdom of the crowds is a statistical phenomenon. I’m probably wrong. I just think - when it comes to worrying about the short passing game through the middle and the run game - I’m more afraid of our defensive line not doing its job than our linebackers and secondary.
I think Clowney can be just as good--if not better--than Vernon in the run game.

I completely agree with you that Sheldon to Billings is a massive downgrade.

I do think that every other DT we've picked up is a big upgrade to that part of the roster. I was a big Ogunjobi fan, but he disappointed last year. I'd go so far as to say Togiai, right now, is likely a better player--and that's not even counting Malik Jackson, the potential of Marvin Wilson, or the comeback of Malik McDowell.

More importantly, I think our secondary is much more capable--both at CB and S--at defending the run.

I think that's what a modern defense has to do:
  1. give the passing game fits
  2. Contain the run game that comes off the passing game (scrambles and whatnot).
  3. Be effective enough at stopping the run that a team can't completely gash you with it
Point 3 is big--and I think that having corners and safeties who can diagnose a play and make the tackle is a big change from last year to this y ear. I also think that having penetrators like Clowney and Myles can lead to enough run plays getting blown up to stop the chains from continually moving if a team wants to deviate from the pass to focus on the run.

That's not even talking about the linebacker upgrades as well.
 
Interior D-line is certainly the biggest question mark on the defensive side of the ball but I also think we have really good depth there on paper. If Woods is as good as advertised, I think we can get creative with moving Garrett and Clowney across the line.

I like what I am hearing about Togiai - guy is hard to move - and you'd assume playing on a line with Garrett and Clowney, you're going to have opportunities in the middle due to double-teams alone. I think Elliot's game also compliments Togiai's well - he's quicker, twitchy and got great hands. I expect to see a jump in his production this year.

Pressure is still the name of the game. We rarely blitzed an extra LB last year on passing downs and I am willing to bet it was due to personnel issues and not by design. I don't expect that to be the case this year. With all the new additions, I think we will be able to create a lot more pressure on the QB, whether its an actual blitz package or a pressure look to confuse the QB. Our back seven feels tailor made for stunt packages.
 
I think Clowney can be just as good--if not better--than Vernon in the run game.

I completely agree with you that Sheldon to Billings is a massive downgrade.

I do think that every other DT we've picked up is a big upgrade to that part of the roster. I was a big Ogunjobi fan, but he disappointed last year. I'd go so far as to say Togiai, right now, is likely a better player--and that's not even counting Malik Jackson, the potential of Marvin Wilson, or the comeback of Malik McDowell.

More importantly, I think our secondary is much more capable--both at CB and S--at defending the run.

I think that's what a modern defense has to do:
  1. give the passing game fits
  2. Contain the run game that comes off the passing game (scrambles and whatnot).
  3. Be effective enough at stopping the run that a team can't completely gash you with it
Point 3 is big--and I think that having corners and safeties who can diagnose a play and make the tackle is a big change from last year to this y ear. I also think that having penetrators like Clowney and Myles can lead to enough run plays getting blown up to stop the chains from continually moving if a team wants to deviate from the pass to focus on the run.

That's not even talking about the linebacker upgrades as well.
I think there's likely some statistical probability models around passing and running that indicate that stopping the short passing game and the RPO game is where you have to begin. I will try to articulate it but I no promises:

It's something like the variability of passing "returns" is "worth it" and it has come a long way from that old mantra that only 3 things can happen when you throw a pass and 2 of them are bad.
There's also some logic like "we have 75 yards to stop these guys - we don't need to prevent yards, we have to stop a first down and we have maybe 6 attempts - if we stop it really quickly, we allow 0 and if it takes us a bit (or we need the help of the 12th defender the end zone) then we likely allow 3"
I think this is why/how the Chiefs get gashed and people think they can't defend. I think they look for 1. opportunities to cause a negative play, which causes a ton of issues for all teams one of which is more predictability (higher propensity to pass). The Chiefs, of course, are often ahead and will tilt toward letting teams cash in runs, even first downs, for the cost of time (and of course they aren't intending to give them these things for nothing - they are essentially playing odds).

There's probably something to be said about getting like, 1 first down on offense, or maybe there's data that says getting a first down when the team has their heavy defense in, and then running the hurry up, is a very favorable outcome. Not sure how this is relevant but it comes to mind.

I think most teams know this, but not all adhere to it as they should for a variety of reasons - personnel, speed of the game, football guys, etc.

That said, I think the Browns staff and front office are one of the best at understanding these dynamics, other ones that I haven't thought of or grasped, and their interplay. Evidence includes:
1. Chubb/Hunt (and the OL): our rushing game, even on like 1st & 10 or any time you are playing us to pass, like we don't get 6 yard runs - we can set up 2nd and short or, if you make a mistake, Chubb is quick but mofo can burn people too! Like a missed tackle or read and dude is gone. He is a bruiser, with damn good quickness, who can also win a sprint. It's amazing really. He isn't replaceable in my eyes.
2. The draft capital spent on Newsome & JOK. Just that emphasis on coverage.
3. Looting the Rams' backfield. More emphasis on coverage.
4. A grown man front 4.

I guess the bird's eye take here is that every defensive scheme has it's weaknesses and I think what the FO & coaches are attempting to is an intelligent/purposeful way of going about it.
 
I think Clowney can be just as good--if not better--than Vernon in the run game.

I completely agree with you that Sheldon to Billings is a massive downgrade.

I do think that every other DT we've picked up is a big upgrade to that part of the roster. I was a big Ogunjobi fan, but he disappointed last year. I'd go so far as to say Togiai, right now, is likely a better player--and that's not even counting Malik Jackson, the potential of Marvin Wilson, or the comeback of Malik McDowell.

More importantly, I think our secondary is much more capable--both at CB and S--at defending the run.

I think that's what a modern defense has to do:
  1. give the passing game fits
  2. Contain the run game that comes off the passing game (scrambles and whatnot).
  3. Be effective enough at stopping the run that a team can't completely gash you with it
Point 3 is big--and I think that having corners and safeties who can diagnose a play and make the tackle is a big change from last year to this y ear. I also think that having penetrators like Clowney and Myles can lead to enough run plays getting blown up to stop the chains from continually moving if a team wants to deviate from the pass to focus on the run.

That's not even talking about the linebacker upgrades as well.
I think Clowney will be more productive than Vernon in the run game. I just think asking him to do what Vernon did isn’t making the best use of his skills. Whereas Vernon was a guy that never got gashed but also had only a few major TFLs, Clowney is more boom/busy.

I’m concerned more about the defensive line being able to stop the run at/near the LoS. I have few concerns about long runs, which we were already good at defending, and I think will be even better now.

Basically, teams like the Packers and 49ers scare me more from a defensive angle than the Bucs.

I agree with everything else you said. I think our linebackers are going to be good at shutting down the duo looks that the Bucs used to breeze to a Super Bowl. Our corners are also underrated in the run game.
 
I think there's likely some statistical probability models around passing and running that indicate that stopping the short passing game and the RPO game is where you have to begin.
I think you're spot-on here. This is one of the reasons why the Seattle-style Cover 3 has gone the way of the dinosaur--it can't deal with mobile QB's, RPO's, or late-releasing routes that take advantage of how lax the referees have become with allowing linemen downfield.
 
I think Clowney will be more productive than Vernon in the run game. I just think asking him to do what Vernon did isn’t making the best use of his skills. Whereas Vernon was a guy that never got gashed but also had only a few major TFLs, Clowney is more boom/busy.
Agreed.

I’m concerned more about the defensive line being able to stop the run at/near the LoS. I have few concerns about long runs, which we were already good at defending, and I think will be even better now.
I guess I don't see it like this. I don't think of the defensive line being responsible for reaching across two gaps and having big Ted Washington arm-tackle a running back to the ground. I see each defender as a potential to win a blocking assignment and make an impact play. I see the routine stops as the responsibilities of the linebackers and safeties. You keep those runs manageable, and eventually that impact play will put the offense behind the chains. Then you have your chance to get the ball back.

Basically, teams like the Packers and 49ers scare me more from a defensive angle than the Bucs.
100% with the 49ers. I was going to mention them in the above paragraph as an example of a team who doesn't allow their running game to just be "manageable." Shanahan gashes you for big plays with the run.

I don't see the Packers offense in the same light--at all. The Ravens are probably the next team that comes to mind other than the wide-zone teams like the Rams and Vikings.

I agree with everything else you said. I think our linebackers are going to be good at shutting down the duo looks that the Bucs used to breeze to a Super Bowl. Our corners are also underrated in the run game.
Agreed--I think that Myles/Togiai/Billings/Clowney, with Walker behind them is good enough to stop a team from doing that to us. Is it the purple people eaters? Of course not. But I don't think you need that to be able to win. I'd rather be dominant against the pass and adequate against the run than the other way around.
 
Agreed.


I guess I don't see it like this. I don't think of the defensive line being responsible for reaching across two gaps and having big Ted Washington arm-tackle a running back to the ground. I see each defender as a potential to win a blocking assignment and make an impact play. I see the routine stops as the responsibilities of the linebackers and safeties. You keep those runs manageable, and eventually that impact play will put the offense behind the chains. Then you have your chance to get the ball back.


100% with the 49ers. I was going to mention them in the above paragraph as an example of a team who doesn't allow their running game to just be "manageable." Shanahan gashes you for big plays with the run.

I don't see the Packers offense in the same light--at all. The Ravens are probably the next team that comes to mind other than the wide-zone teams like the Rams and Vikings.


Agreed--I think that Myles/Togiai/Billings/Clowney, with Walker behind them is good enough to stop a team from doing that to us. Is it the purple people eaters? Of course not. But I don't think you need that to be able to win. I'd rather be dominant against the pass and adequate against the run than the other way around.
Just to add, if Togiai really is as good as the best writers say he looked at OTAs, then all of my concerns are moot.
 
Just to add, if Togiai really is as good as the best writers say he looked at OTAs, then all of my concerns are moot.
I thought he looked really good at Ohio State... if you told me you had a high second round grade on him, I wouldn't think you're out of your mind.
Togiai was elite last season...can't remember the last time OSU had a DT that good. Think if he got a full season (12-15 games) he would have been drafted much sooner. Of the draftable OSU players this year, Togiai was my favorite for the Browns from a fit and value perspective...I was truly hoping the Browns would grab him in the 4th and that's exactly what they did.

Don't be surprised if he ends up starting before too long. At the least I expect he'll be getting a significant number of snaps.
 

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