Odell Beckham Jr.,: Seatbelts Ruin Lives

[MirORich]

I think a lot of what OBJ gets blamed for should be correctly assigned to Freddie Kitchens/Todd Monken in 2019 and the natural acclimation period and progression of Baker learning Stefanski/Van Pelt in a live reps deprived offseason.

I for one look forward to OBJ’s return and what it will mean for how defenses have to play against the Browns.

IF when that happens, there is a Baker regression, at that point we could assign part of that issue to OBJ or to Baker trying to overfocus on OBJ but I def think a lot of what we assumed was that overfocus was actually Baker learning a new offense and the guys running the offense learning Baker

 

[Douglar]

Yall want the man to play through a torn ACL now???

He played the entire year last year with a sports hernia without saying a word and put up 1000yds receiving through a dumpster fire of a season. I hope he gets traded for *his* sake, cause many of yall don't deserve nice things.

That's not what I was saying at all. OBJ is a good receiver. but there's no way he can play though an ACL injury. I was just trying to explain some of the traits that endear Landry to the Browns fan base. Landry was a gladiator for playing with bad ribs but that was off topic and has nothing to do with OBJ.

Let me get back on topic. In the first 6 games of this season that OBJ played, Baker had some good games and some bad games, but showed a lot of the bad habits that he developed last season. People were starting to question whether or not Baker was an above average QB in the NFL.

Normally when the #1 receiver goes out for the season, you expect there would be some drop off in the passing game, but the opposite happened. In the 8 games since Beckham went on the IR, Mayfield had a pair of bad weather games, a "good enough" game against Philly, and 5 games where you gotta say that Baker played some sharp, cut throat, and even "dangerous" football. He's looking like he did at the end of 2018, before Beckham joined the team. In the meantime, we sat though 22 games of Meh with the two of them on the field together with few bright spots. Even in Baker's best games, Beckham was sort of a second fiddle last year.

It's possible that Baker's slump when OBJ joined the team and his elevation after OBJ left was completely a coincidence. A lot of stuff happens on a team and rarely does one thing explain it all. But until we see Baker have a great game with OBJ on the field, seems safe to say that its possible something just hasn't clicked between the two of them.

Can anyone can point out some other factor on the team this year that explains Baker's turn around after game 6?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's not what I was saying at all. OBJ is a good receiver. but there's no way he can play though an ACL injury. I was just trying to explain some of the traits that endear Landry to the Browns fan base. Landry was a gladiator for playing with bad ribs but that was off topic and has nothing to do with OBJ.

Let me get back on topic. In the first 6 games of this season that OBJ played, Baker had some good games and some bad games, but showed a lot of the bad habits that he developed last season. People were starting to question whether or not Baker was an above average QB in the NFL.

Normally when the #1 receiver goes out for the season, you expect there would be some drop off in the passing game, but the opposite happened. In the 8 games since Beckham went on the IR, Mayfield had a pair of bad weather games, a "good enough" game against Philly, and 5 games where you gotta say that Baker played some sharp, cut throat, and even "dangerous" football. He's looking like he did at the end of 2018, before Beckham joined the team. In the meantime, we sat though 22 games of Meh with the two of them on the field together with few bright spots. Even in Baker's best games, Beckham was sort of a second fiddle last year.

It's possible that Baker's slump when OBJ joined the team and his elevation after OBJ left was completely a coincidence. A lot of stuff happens on a team and rarely does one thing explain it all. But until we see Baker have a great game with OBJ on the field, seems safe to say that its possible something just hasn't clicked between the two of them.

Can anyone can point out some other factor on the team this year that explains Baker's turn around after game 6?

If we bring back OBJ, we're sending Higgins and DPJ back to the bench. I just don't see the logic in having a very expensive overstock at one position when we have such critical needs elsewhere. Seems like a terrible misallocation of cap space.

 

[Douglar]

If we bring back OBJ, we're sending Higgins and DPJ back to the bench. I just don't see the logic oin having a very expensive overstock at one position when we have such critical needs elsewhere. Seems like a terrible misallocation of cap space.

I hear you, but whatcha gunna do? Most of his money is guaranteed and he's coming off a major injury. Can't see that getting traded unless the Browns include a big sweetener. Looks like he'll be back next year with a chance to prove me wrong while we all sit and try to pretend that a late model Vernon Oliver is actually Dexter Lawrence

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I hear you, but whatcha gunna do? Most of his money is guaranteed and he's coming off a major injury. Can't see that getting traded unless the Browns include a big sweetener. Looks like he'll be back next year with a chance to prove me wrong while we all sit and try to pretend that a late model Vernon Oliver is actually Dexter Lawrence

If he can't be moved without giving away assets, then we obviously keep him. But I'd probably be fine with a walkaway deal where we get some low round pick or minor player to get out from under the salary if possible.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I hear you, but whatcha gunna do? Most of his money is guaranteed and he's coming off a major injury. Can't see that getting traded unless the Browns include a big sweetener. Looks like he'll be back next year with a chance to prove me wrong while we all sit and try to pretend that a late model Vernon Oliver is actually Dexter Lawrence

Next year is guaranteed. The two after that are not.

Since the Giants ate his entire signing bonus, his contract is reasonable and easy to move.

I was one of the few critical of the OBJ trade when Buddy Boy made it, but the way you guys are talking about him like a net negative now is absurd.

I feel like people are just mad because the media likes to call him a diva, and they expected pre-2016 Megastar OBJ, and are disappointed that's not what they got. That anger shouldn't be directed at OBJ--it should be directed at John Dorsey.

Beckham will never be pre-2016 OBJ again. That injury was catastrophic, and Dorsey traded for the bright shiny name skill position player as if that injury never happened. However, what OBJ currently was in 2020 is still significantly better than any other receiver on the team. I put my neck out as bullish on DPJ pre-draft, post-draft, and in our pre-season write-ups. But it would be foolish to expect him to be able to replace what OBJ can do on the field. There's still a large gap between their abilities and skillsets.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I put my neck out as bullish on DPJ pre-draft, post-draft, and in our pre-season write-ups. But it would be foolish to expect him to be able to replace what OBJ can do on the field. There's still a large gap between their abilities and skillsets.

And contracts, which is the core point.

 

[Douglar]

OBJ's double digit touchdown seasons are not likely to come back, but the guy has not been catching the passes like he used to. Those drops are drive killers. Browns need to find a way to get OBJ's Catch% back up above 60%. If that happens, I think he'll be able to help the team and I'll leave the guy alone.

Odell Beckham Jr. Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Odell Beckham Jr.. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Compare with Landry.

Jarvis Landry Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Jarvis Landry. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Landry catches shorter routes, so maybe we should look at Higgins:

Rashard Higgins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Rashard Higgins. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Douglar]

OK, OBJ doesn't have many drops, but he's not connecting with Baker

2020 Cleveland Browns Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2020 Cleveland Browns Advanced Stats including passing, rushing, receiving, defense stats and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Vee-Rex]

Group A: Baker has been playing better without OBJ - the two of them don't seem to mix well.
Group B: It's not OBJ's fault!!!
Group A:

No one is saying ~it's OBJ's fault~ or that OBJ sucks. But it's obvious that there's a disconnect between our QB and OBJ, something that exists with Landry, Higgins, Hooper, DPJ, etc... With that in mind, we have to evaluate whether the 14 million is worth it or not. I'm all for bringing him back and hoping he and Baker can finally develop some chemistry, but I'm also not opposed to us trading him either. You'd be surprised what a team might offer for him especially if they're trying to boost the weaponry for a young QB.

Simple fact of the matter - OBJ's production in his time here HAS NOT warranted a guaranteed position on this roster at his contract.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Group A: Baker has been playing better without OBJ - the two of them don't seem to mix well.
Group B: It's not OBJ's fault!!!
Group A:

No one is saying ~it's OBJ's fault~ or that OBJ sucks. But it's obvious that there's a disconnect between our QB and OBJ, something that exists with Landry, Higgins, Hooper, DPJ, etc... With that in mind, we have to evaluate whether the 14 million is worth it or not. I'm all for bringing him back and hoping he and Baker can finally develop some chemistry, but I'm also not opposed to us trading him either. You'd be surprised what a team might offer for him especially if they're trying to boost the weaponry for a young QB.

Simple fact of the matter - OBJ's production in his time here HAS NOT warranted a guaranteed position on this roster at his contract.

Or, perhaps, as explained earlier in this season, the team will get better week by week. Young team, first time head coach, new offensive system, no offseason. Just because the team continues to improve does not mean that there is causation with OBJ being out.

However, when OBJ went down, many of us predicted this would happen--that fans would see the continued improvement of the team and say that maybe OBJ is the problem. Huh... look at the posts now...

I'm the last person in favor of high-priced wide receivers. I've always said that a WR is like a hood ornament. They don't make your car go. I was against trading for Beckham, and I'd much rather continually invest in QB, OL and Defense than skill positions. However, you have to deal with the reality that OBJ is already here, on a pretty reasonable contract for his talents. At his price tag, the talent level he's comparable with in terms of free agency would be guys like Sammy Watkins.

He's already guaranteed for next year due to this injury. He's basically on three team-friendly, one-year deals. There isn't a downside. If someone comes in and blows your doors off, allowing you to recoup the value you dealt away to get him? Of course you take that deal. But that trade isn't coming. I'm not looking to dump him for a third or fourth rounder. For now, you roll with him. As good as we're playing right now, adding another threat only helps everyone involved.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Or, perhaps, as explained earlier in this season, the team will get better week by week. Young team, first time head coach, new offensive system, no offseason. Just because the team continues to improve does not mean that there is causation with OBJ being out.

However, when OBJ went down, many of us predicted this would happen--that fans would see the continued improvement of the team and say that maybe OBJ is the problem. Huh... look at the posts now...

I'm the last person in favor of high-priced wide receivers. I've always said that a WR is like a hood ornament. They don't make your car go. I was against trading for Beckham, and I'd much rather continually invest in QB, OL and Defense than skill positions. However, you have to deal with the reality that OBJ is already here, on a pretty reasonable contract for his talents. At his price tag, the talent level he's comparable with in terms of free agency would be guys like Sammy Watkins.

He's already guaranteed for next year due to this injury. He's basically on three team-friendly, one-year deals. There isn't a downside. If someone comes in and blows your doors off, allowing you to recoup the value you dealt away to get him? Of course you take that deal. But that trade isn't coming. I'm not looking to dump him for a third or fourth rounder. For now, you roll with him. As good as we're playing right now, adding another threat only helps everyone involved.

Pretty much where I'm at. You can trade him if you get a real return, but I'd like to see how he looks next year with this system well in place and hopefully an actual NFL off-season. If next year rolls around and Baker still looks lost throwing to him, you address is then.

And I think we should use on of our first three picks on a receiver in the draft regardless. It's looking like another fantastic receiver draft and I don't think you can ever have too much talent there.

 

[rastamon87]

It's unlikely he gets traded... But if he does, I'll guess it would be the Raiders, they seem to like to swing with this kind of acquisition, like what they did with Antonio Brown... That city might have enough glitter for Odell to like...

 

[Triplethreat]

Or, perhaps, as explained earlier in this season, the team will get better week by week. Young team, first time head coach, new offensive system, no offseason. Just because the team continues to improve does not mean that there is causation with OBJ being out.

However, when OBJ went down, many of us predicted this would happen--that fans would see the continued improvement of the team and say that maybe OBJ is the problem. Huh... look at the posts now...

I'm the last person in favor of high-priced wide receivers. I've always said that a WR is like a hood ornament. They don't make your car go. I was against trading for Beckham, and I'd much rather continually invest in QB, OL and Defense than skill positions. However, you have to deal with the reality that OBJ is already here, on a pretty reasonable contract for his talents. At his price tag, the talent level he's comparable with in terms of free agency would be guys like Sammy Watkins.

He's already guaranteed for next year due to this injury. He's basically on three team-friendly, one-year deals. There isn't a downside. If someone comes in and blows your doors off, allowing you to recoup the value you dealt away to get him? Of course you take that deal. But that trade isn't coming. I'm not looking to dump him for a third or fourth rounder. For now, you roll with him. As good as we're playing right now, adding another threat only helps everyone involved.

No, you simply cannot ignore the boost in Baker's production timing EXACTLY with OBJ's departure and just call that "young team getting better".

It's clear just looking at the statistics that Beckham and Baker have not been on the same page, they aren't completing a high% of passes to each other compared to the other wide outs and there are more INT's when targeting Beckham than any other WR on the roster.

There is clear correlation. Overlooking it is simply turning a blind eye.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

No, you simply cannot ignore the boost in Baker's production timing EXACTLY with OBJ's departure and just call that "young team getting better".

It's clear just looking at the statistics that Beckham and Baker have not been on the same page, they aren't completing a high% of passes to each other compared to the other wide outs and there are more INT's when targeting Beckham than any other WR on the roster.

There is clear correlation. Overlooking it is simply turning a blind eye.

Ignore?

Baker, week-by-week, has improved this season. Go back to the posts when OBJ went down. You're behaving exactly like many of us predicted--as the Browns continue to improve, people will say we're better without our most talented WR.

You seem to be ignoring actual football in favor of a storyline that makes you feel good.

Until proven otherwise, we're better with more talent than we are with less talent. The alternative has not been proven.