Pitching

[thestatman]

We also have to remember we can only keep so many and Moss just lost out is all. He just may have not put in the same off season work as the other guys and lost out cause of that. We are going to end up using 8-10 starters/swing men by the end of the season anyways. I don't know if we will see a 200 inning pitcher this season and I don't expect any of the younger arms going above 120 so expect a bunch of arms to fill in those innings.

Yes you are right. Needing as many as 10 starting pitchers throughout the course of a season is very likely. Moss will have a lot of time to prove his mettle in triple A.

 

[sportscoach]

Yes you are right. Needing as many as 10 starting pitchers throughout the course of a season is very likely. Moss will have a lot of time to prove his mettle in triple A.

I personally never saw Moss as a contender for the starting rotation this season. If he plays in the pros this season it will be out of the pen/swing man. I wouldn't have been against more innings with the major league club otherwise, he was always on the outside this season.

 

[CDAV45]

I personally never saw Moss as a contender for the starting rotation this season. If he plays in the pros this season it will be out of the pen/swing man. I wouldn't have been against more innings with the major league club otherwise, he was always on the outside this season.

Yeah I didn't either, but his misfortune isn't of his own doing. He's just in the wrong organization at the wrong time. I think his value is as a SP and I wouldn't reduce that value to have him pitch out of the pen at this stage. That's just my opinion though and time is running out.

 

[thestatman]

I personally never saw Moss as a contender for the starting rotation this season. If he plays in the pros this season it will be out of the pen/swing man. I wouldn't have been against more innings with the major league club otherwise, he was always on the outside this season.

I I didn't either. I didn't have any hope for Logan Allen either. Allen needed to put up incredible numbers to have any shot at being a starter, and then he did just that. As for Moss, I have no problem at all him being sent down. The crafty lefty will have the opportunity to shine down there. As you pointed out, injuries might provide an opportunity for him, Sam Hentges and Eli Morgan at some point. I'm very anxious to see the development of Hankins and Green as well.

 

[thestatman]

Yeah I didn't either, but his misfortune isn't of his own doing. He's just in the wrong organization at the wrong time. I think his value is as a SP and I wouldn't reduce that value to have him pitch out of the pen at this stage. That's just my opinion though and time is running out.

I think Moss will get his shot at some point. The tribe staff is not as deep this season as it once was. He's another asset brought in in the Bauer trade that I think will turn out to be one heck of a trade when it's all said and done.

 

[CDAV45]

So what will Columbus' rotation be. Some order of Vargas, Mejia, Morgan, Moss, Hentges, Cantillo, Scott?

 

[CDAV45]

I think Moss will get his shot at some point. The tribe staff is not as deep this season as it once was. He's another asset brought in in the Bauer trade that I think will turn out to be one heck of a trade when it's all said and done.

I think it's deeper than you think, just a little more unproven.

 

[thestatman]

I think it's deeper than you think, just a little more unproven.

You're probably right. I guess when you move Kluber, Bauer, Clevenger and Cookie within one year it just seems a lot thinner. I will be going to a lot of Rubberduck games to get my baseball fix this season.

 

[CDAV45]

You're probably right. I guess when you move Kluber, Bauer. Clevenger and Cookie within one year it just seems a lot thinner. I will be going to a lot of Rubberduck games to get my baseball fix this season.

I'd like to make a couple myself, but most of my ballpark experience will be in Columbus. I love Huntington Park and that roster is f'n loaded.

 

[sportscoach]

I think it's deeper than you think, just a little more unproven.

Arm talent wise, you could say, we are pretty deep, they just haven't gotten to prove themselves because of the depth. I agree it's deeper talent wise than peeps are saying.

So what will Columbus' rotation be. Some order of Vargas, Mejia, Morgan, Moss, Hentges, Cantillo, Scott?

Vargas, Meija, Cantillo likely won't be above AA to start the season.

Moss and Morgan are the only two set for AAA, it will be a competition for the rest of the rotation there between like guys you mentioned, plus like the Tully, Krauth, Stephen, Morris, McCarty etc who could start as well. Without watching these guys in 20, we really don't know where everyone is at. @BimboColesHair would probably be the person to ask where he thinks everyone will be at

 

[thestatman]

I'd like to make a couple myself, but most of my ballpark experience will be in Columbus. I love Huntington Park and that roster is f'n loaded.

Yes indeed they are loaded!. A few of those guys should be in Cleveland and not in Columbus right now. lol.

Clippers won it all in 2019 and will probably do so again this season.

 

[CDAV45]

Arm talent wise, you could say, we are pretty deep, they just haven't gotten to prove themselves because of the depth. I agree it's deeper talent wise than peeps are saying.



Vargas, Meija, Cantillo likely won't be above AA to start the season.

Moss and Morgan are the only two set for AAA, it will be a competition for the rest of the rotation there between like guys you mentioned, plus like the Tully, Krauth, Stephen, Morris, McCarty etc who could start as well. Without watching these guys in 20, we really don't know where everyone is at. @BimboColesHair would probably be the person to ask where he thinks everyone will be at

I'm fairly confident that both Vargas and Mejia will be in Columbus' rotation. After checking, both are listed on Columbus' roster.

I felt like I was missing someone and I was. Stephens will definitely be in the rotation.

Bimbo told us that what was will no longer be and what wasn't is now.

 

[sportscoach]

I'm fairly confident that both Vargas and Mejia will be in Columbus' rotation. After checking, both are listed on Columbus' roster.

I felt like I was missing someone and I was. Stephens will definitely be in the rotation.

Bimbo told us that what was will no longer be and what wasn't is now.

They have like 40ish players on that columbus roster, count them... Lol

Vargas and Mejia have never pitched above A ball, so it's hard to believe they start the season at AAA.

Progression wise they would have been at high A in 20 with a few appearances at AA then AA to start 21. Since the depth reasons they aren't going to move up fast, so that's what normal progression would have been.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Now that we know who made the team, how does this year’s pitching stack up against what they had last year?

The Indians’ overall pitching ranked 1st in the A.L. with a WAR of +10.4 according to the Baseball Reference WAR calculations. The second place team was +8.4, revealing how incredibly dominant the Tribe’s staff was last year. All of these rankings are for the A.L. only since most of the schedule is against the A.L. and the N.L. numbers are skewed by the lack of a DH so I did not include them.

Breaking down the pitching, the starters were 1st in WAR while the bullpen was 6th. The starters’ WAR was 8.6, more than double the second place team at 4.2. This year three starters stay the same while Clevinger, Carrasco, and Plutko, who combined to start one-third of the games will be replaced by McKenzie and Allen.

Carrasco started 12 games with a 2.91 ERA. The Indians went 6-6 in his 12 starts. In four of his six losses the Indians scored 0, 0, 1, and 2 runs. Clevinger started four games and the Indians went 2-2. His ERA was 3.18 and the Indians scored 1 and 2 runs in the two starts he lost. Plutko also started four games and the Tribe went 2-2. Opposing batters hit .303/.888 when he was the starter.

It’s impossible to project how well McKenzie and Allen, or anyone who replaces them, will pitch compared to CC, Clev, and Plutko. My guess is we’ll see some drop-off. I don’t see McKenzie or Allen maintaining an ERA in the 2.9-3.1 range where CC and Clevinger lived.

The Indians were 10-10 in games started by CC, Clev, and Plutko. If you include the two games started by Quantrill they were 12-10, equivalent to 33-27 in 60 starts. Can the Indians tread water and go 33-27 in those 60 starts this year? Only if they score more runs, IMO.

The bullpen breaks down pretty clearly. Karinchak, Wittgren, Maton, and Perez return. Clase replaces Hand. Shaw replaces Cimber (14 appearances); Quantrill replaces Cam Hill (18 appearances), and Stephan replaces Leone (12 appearances). Again, it’s hard to say if this is an improvement, a regression, or about the same. I have to assume Clase won’t match Hand’s 2.05 ERA and be perfect in saves. He might not even be the closer. But if he can pitch somewhere close to the effectiveness of Hand last year we should be in good shape since Cimber (3.97), Leone (8.38) and Hill (4.91) were pretty bad.

I figure if we see a modest decline at the closer position but a modest improvement in the middle relief it should be a wash and could be even better depending on if Karinchak can build on his rookie performance last year and Clase can leverage that triple-digit heat into outs.

Overall it will be tough for Bieber to maintain that level of dominance (1.63 ERA) over 32 starts. I can’t see Plesac pitching an entire season with a 2.28 ERA. Civale supposedly has improved his delivery but we’ll have to see. And I don’t see McKenzie and Allen matching the performances of CC and Clevinger.

I think our starters will continue to be among the best, and possibly remain THE best, in the A.L. but I can’t see the kind of dominance we saw last year in a short season. The bullpen I expect to be about the same and potentially better.

Overall I don’t know if the Indians’ staff can maintain their #1 ranking but they should easily be in the top five.

The wild card is injuries. Hopefully no more starters get knocked out by line drives or are diagnosed with a serious disease. This is a very young staff with none of the starters over 26 so you would expect fewer arm-related injuries than teams with starters in their 30’s. Carrasco, for example, is already having issues.

 

[MadThinker88]

ummm, the DH was universal in 2020. So if your using 2020 stats, the NL clubs should be included.
If your using the 2019 stats (as a full 162 game season), excluding the NL makes more sense..