Pitching

[CDAV45]

I saw a kid facing the highest scoring offense to this point in the season in a hitter friendly ballpark struggle with his control and still go 5 innings of 1 run ball cause he has special strikeout stuff.

If you go into his games expecting a flamethrower bringing it 95+ like he was last year that had fans all excited, you’re going to have a bad time. That’s not who he is.

In no way did his performance yesterday lead me to “back of the rotation guy”. Quite the opposite. Once he dials in his mechanics, which he will, he’s going to be really good...and he’s already been real good to this point, book on him or no book on him.

I love the kid! His attitude and demeanor are contagious. I look at it this way. He is already an effective MLB SP at the ripe ol' age of 23 so where he positions himself in the rotation means little to me. I don't find it unreasonable to think that he will get better in an organization famous for pitcher development. My fear with Tristen is his ability to avoid injury in the long term.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Not disrespecting anyone’s opinion, cause that certainly didn’t sound like an opinion as I read it. And this forum has had some awful declarations made in it over the years, from flash in the pan Corey Kluber to Tomlin will always be better than Bauer.

I respect your opinion that McKenzie has a ways to go to prove he’s a frontline arm, I’m in 100% agreement with you. I have the luxury of knowing what he was asked to work on, what he wanted to work on himself, how his health is, etc. because of my job and I simply added in what he is doing on the fly still.

Been saying it since Spring, he needs to clean his mechanics and re-calibrate the new movement on 2 of his primary pitches. But I’ve seen him pitch 200+ innings as a pro prior to the MLB level, this is the best his stuff has looked in a few years, pre-back injury. Someone as dedicated as he is at his craft will get his mechanics right too.

The velocity should not worry a single person. You got fools gold last year when he was pumping 98 mph fastballs past fat Miguel Cabrera. That’s not who he is or who he’s going to be. It’s not who he needs to be with how long he is either to be a frontline arm.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I just wanted to mention that I liked what I saw from Clase today. In the previous game he was throwing 98% fastbals (my estimate). The Reds knew what was coming every pitch but couldn't square it up. They hit three routine ground balls. Unfortunately, the third was botched by Naylor. The fourth batter also hit a ground ball that sneaked into left field to tie the game.

Today Clase was throwing at least 50% sliders and probably more (my estimate). He gave up an infield hit on yet another ground ball to the leadoff hitter but then struck out three in a row mixing sliders with fastballs, but mostly sliders.

I'm thinking that with a one-run lead on Saturday he was going exclusively with what he considers to be his best pitch. Today with a three-run lead and not having to worry about the solo homer he mixed his pitches effectively. Or maybe he just realized that on Saturday he didn't get a single strikeout against seven batters throwing exclusively fastballs.

Clase really does a great job of keeping his pitches down so even when they hit them the ball is usually on the ground.

As for McKenzie it's exciting to hear that they believe they have identified why he hurt his back and are changing his mechanics to avoid further injuries.

 

[DCTribefan]

I see, you can sell him as a FOR and it is just fine, but I can't comment differently.

The truth being known neither of us know and I can accept your opinion without telling you TO STOP, show some respect

Have to say Jup’s opinions on pitchers, while not infallible, is greatly valued on this board.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Have to agree with Jup that his opinion, while not infallible, is greatly valued on this board.

Literally nobody is arguing the opposite.

"Have to agree... we shouldn't go around and drown every child's puppy."

 

[mopete12]

Fangraphs article on Civale today.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/aaron-civale-has-overhauled-everything/

 

[Derek]

Literally nobody is arguing the opposite.

"Have to agree... we shouldn't go around and drown every child's puppy."

The whole back and forth is just miscommunication anyways.

1. I don't think @jup believes McKenzie's ceiling is BOR, that's just where he thinks he ends up. I don't share the belief, but it's an opinion that we can't prove or disprove until much later in the kid's career.

2. @BimboColesHair wasn't saying that McKenzie dialed back his velocity to work on his control. This is where his velocity has always been with the exception of some adrenaline-fueled starts last season. He did, however, tweak some mechanics to save his back, which has led to some control issues as he works on repeating his new mechanics.

 

[Criznit]

Peanut galley rechirp..

In regards to Tmac's velocity. It was/is not an unreasonable to hope for/expect Tmac's velocity to rise as he rose through the system. It has not with any consistently/regularity.

Big deal? Yes, no maybe, IDK.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Peanut galley rechirp..

In regards to Tmac's velocity. It was/is not an unreasonable to hope for/expect Tmac's velocity to rise as he rose through the system. It has not with any consistently/regularity.

Big deal? Yes, no maybe, IDK.

It did rise. He was drafted sitting 88-91 and maxing out at 92. Prior to his back problems he sat 91-94 maxing out at 95. Post back problems he's been sitting 89-93 and can still touch 95 when his mechanics are sound.

 

[sportscoach]

So essentially it sounds like to me, McKenize's velocity issue is more getting his mechanics right than any type of injury issue and his new mechanics should lower his injury chances (at least from previous ones), that is all I need to know on that front...

The differences in velo between starts is concerning in the back of my mind since so many times velo drops from injuries not always from mechanical issues. That cleared up one issue...

Honestly the top velo from McKenzie I felt would go up in time because of age and strength added to his thin frame. I'm not worried about the top end cause his stuff is good, just worried about his durability. This season also i am not gonna judge whether or not he is a front or back end of the rotation since he will be on an innings/pitch limit. I'll judge when he is off the limit and see how he holds up and how he does later in games.

 

[WhoAzcue]

Giolito jumps over Plesac's bad outing.

8 earned runs in one inning on Patriot's Day. His E.R.A. is now 5.79. Sweet.

EDIT: And to save the White Sox bullpen for their series against us, Yermin Mercedes starts the bottom of the 7th (!) on the mound, Chisox down six with two AB's in Fenway to go.

 

[LL3]

Giolito jumps over Plesac's bad outing.

8 earned runs in one inning on Patriot's Day. His E.R.A. is now 5.79. Sweet.

Slugger Yermin Mercedes is on to pitch in the 7th....too much movement on those pitches -- first batter walked.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

So Karinchak's inability to hide using the sticky stuff is hitting a much larger audience.

What Was in James Karinchak's Glove Tonight?

James Karinchak has some nasty stuff. He worked a clean inning with two K's against the White Sox on Friday night, however, a few folks on Twitter noticed some interesting behavior from the right-hander.

ontapsportsnet.com

 

[jup]

So Karinchak's inability to hide using the sticky stuff is hitting a much larger audience.

What Was in James Karinchak's Glove Tonight?

James Karinchak has some nasty stuff. He worked a clean inning with two K's against the White Sox on Friday night, however, a few folks on Twitter noticed some interesting behavior from the right-hander.

ontapsportsnet.com

Yep, it doesn't take an ace detective to spot his handiwork out

 

[Benway]

Fascinating. In the time span of a single generation, the cheating shoe is firmly on the other foot. I'm proud to say that my home team has once again been on the Avant-Garde!
Though no one could have foreseen the substance of abuse switching from anabolic steroids to Glue.