So Long Jordan Clarkson ( aka Chucky McJumperson)

[Muffinalt]

I asked who plays center next year if TT signs elsewhere and got one response: Henson and Okongwu.

Henson is a skinny forward. Even if we sign him, and I hope we do, he lacks the bulk to play center. Beilein was quoted as saying he needs to get stronger.

Okongwu is a 6'9", 220 pound power forward according to the draft site I'm looking at. NBADraftRoom.com mocks him to the Hornets at #13. His NBA comp is Tristan Thompson. By the way, Thompson is listed at 254 pounds so I'm not seeing it. Maybe he's Canadian and can't shoot from beyond five feet.

They have the Cavs picking #4 and taking Obi Toppin, another 220-pound power forward. Here's the comment:

"This draft has two stars at the top and then a bunch of exciting but flawed prospects. Obi is probably the safest of the second tier guys and benefits from a lack of PF/C talent at the top of this draft."

Toppin's comp is Otto Porter, who isn't a center from what I recall. Here's their mock:

2020 NBA Mock Draft - NBA Draft Room

Full 2020 NBA Mock Draft, 2 rounds. Edwards goes 1 to the Wolves, LaMelo 3 to the Hornets, Wiseman is a trade target for a team trading up

www.nbadraftroom.com

This is why I'm pushing for Whiteside, if he would even consider signing with the Cavs. After seeing the impact of Henson's rim protection just for a few games I'd love to get an even better inside defender who is averaging 3.6 blocks per game not to mention 17 points and 15 boards. I don't know what happened with him in Miami but he's doing really well in Portland.

As for Wiseman, they have him going #1. At this point the Cavs have an 8-5 record against below .500 teams. If this continues they won't be in the top five and even the top eight could be a problem. I expect Kobe to trade Thompson to make sure this doesn't happen, and maybe Henson and Love as well. I don't see the Cavs in a position to get Wiseman unless Kobe can clean the decks pretty quick and even then it will take a friendly ping pong ball.

The Cavaliers rank 29th in opponents' points in the paint per game. They need a lot more interior defense and I don't think they can get it from next year's draft.

Okongwu is much longer than TT with superior defensive instincts. I have questions whether he can be the rim protector he is now in college once he arrives but to say he's just a copy of TT is just too lazy.

Actually I'd advise not to read that site at all. Toppin compared to Otto Porter? What were they smoking? Wiseman looks to be the part of the tall, athletic center who blocks all the shots, but once you watch him you start to wonder whether he has the brains or game sense to be an anchor of any kind or have any offensive game besides rim running. If we draft him Id be pretty scared.

The others already voiced their opinions on Whiteside being an actual liability that I agree with. We need a rim protector for sure, but it's better to have none as opposed to one that actually limits us or has locker room questions.

I wonder about Nfaly Dante. I haven't seen him much but the scouting sites I trust aren't too high on him. He might be a project we can pick up late in the first round or in the second but that's hardly a player we can pencil in to start next year.

Imo, we should trade for a youngish center, or hope we can pick the promising ones in the draft. If not, continue to ride TT or whoever comes along as a plug, and wait until a trade that make sense materializes.

Btw if you want some actual proper scouting insights go to the draft thread where we have our knowledgeable guys posting often.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Okongwu is much longer than TT with superior defensive instincts. I have questions whether he can be the rim protector he is now in college once he arrives but to say he's just a copy of TT is just too lazy.

Actually I'd advise not to read that site at all. Toppin compared to Otto Porter? What were they smoking? Wiseman looks to be the part of the tall, athletic center who blocks all the shots, but once you watch him you start to wonder whether he has the brains or game sense to be an anchor of any kind or have any offensive game besides rim running. If we draft him Id be pretty scared.

The others already voiced their opinions on Whiteside being an actual liability that I agree with. We need a rim protector for sure, but it's better to have none as opposed to one that actually limits us or has locker room questions.

I wonder about Nfaly Dante. I haven't seen him much but the scouting sites I trust aren't too high on him. He might be a project we can pick up late in the first round or in the second but that's hardly a player we can pencil in to start next year.

Imo, we should trade for a youngish center, or hope we can pick the promising ones in the draft. If not, continue to ride TT or whoever comes along as a plug, and wait until a trade that make sense materializes.

Btw if you want some actual proper scouting insights go to the draft thread where we have our knowledgeable guys posting often.

Damian Lillard says Whiteside is a really good dude and not a cancer.

Damian Lillard Claims Hassan Whiteside Has Been 'Good' And Is 'A Really Good Dude'

Damian Lillard speaks out on Hassan Whiteside.

clutchpoints.com

"He’s a really good dude, a good teammate, he don’t cause trouble,” Lillard said.

Good enough for me.

Option 1 - "We should trade for a youngish center...."

Great idea. Who do you have in mind that is available and plays for a team that would trade him to Cleveland for something we would be willing to part with?

Options 2 - "Or hope we can pick the promising ones in the draft."

What promising ones would that be? You wonder whether Wiseman has any brains or game sense and has any offensive game besides rim running. You say you'd be "pretty scared" to draft him. Yet everybody I've seen says he's clearly the #1 center and will be the #1 or #2 pick in the draft. If the other pivotmen are well below him, then how scared are you to take one of them with our top 10 pick?

Option 3 - "Continue to ride TT". OK, well, you know he's a free agent and has a child in LA, right? My guess is he likes hanging out with celebrities and would rather get somewhere with more action if the money's the same. Oh, and how does sticking with TT (assuming it's even possible) IMPROVE our rim protection? It doesn't.

Which is why I keep coming back to Whiteside, a free agent who is way, way better than anybody we can get in the draft or any "youngish center" we could trade for, if that player even exists.

I don't think Thompson signs here and I don't think there is a young center sitting on somebody's bench that is available without giving up any cornerstone pieces and can be developed into a center that can start for an NBA Finals team. I don't think there is a college center who is a decent value in the top 10 except Wiseman and I don't think we'll have the 1st or 2nd pick.

I don't think we can get Whiteside, either, since he'll have options, so I think we might be screwed. I hope Altman has a plan because apparently he doesn't even want Ante back.

 

[WorldFreeB]

TNT game tonight for Chucky,,,who's tuning in? I know i am.

 

[NMCav]

Damian Lillard says Whiteside is a really good dude and not a cancer.

Damian Lillard Claims Hassan Whiteside Has Been 'Good' And Is 'A Really Good Dude'

Damian Lillard speaks out on Hassan Whiteside.

clutchpoints.com

"He’s a really good dude, a good teammate, he don’t cause trouble,” Lillard said.

Good enough for me.

Option 1 - "We should trade for a youngish center...."

Great idea. Who do you have in mind that is available and plays for a team that would trade him to Cleveland for something we would be willing to part with?

Options 2 - "Or hope we can pick the promising ones in the draft."

What promising ones would that be? You wonder whether Wiseman has any brains or game sense and has any offensive game besides rim running. You say you'd be "pretty scared" to draft him. Yet everybody I've seen says he's clearly the #1 center and will be the #1 or #2 pick in the draft. If the other pivotmen are well below him, then how scared are you to take one of them with our top 10 pick?

Option 3 - "Continue to ride TT". OK, well, you know he's a free agent and has a child in LA, right? My guess is he likes hanging out with celebrities and would rather get somewhere with more action if the money's the same. Oh, and how does sticking with TT (assuming it's even possible) IMPROVE our rim protection? It doesn't.

Which is why I keep coming back to Whiteside, a free agent who is way, way better than anybody we can get in the draft or any "youngish center" we could trade for, if that player even exists.

I don't think Thompson signs here and I don't think there is a young center sitting on somebody's bench that is available without giving up any cornerstone pieces and can be developed into a center that can start for an NBA Finals team. I don't think there is a college center who is a decent value in the top 10 except Wiseman and I don't think we'll have the 1st or 2nd pick.

I don't think we can get Whiteside, either, since he'll have options, so I think we might be screwed. I hope Altman has a plan because apparently he doesn't even want Ante back.

We aren't going to contend for a championship any time soon. Why do we need a championship center? Also if Dame says Whiteside is good people it means its true? All the reports out of Miami were false? You really think any player gonna say there teammate isn't a good dude to the media?

Option 1 - Got some buy low guys Harry Giles and DJ Wilson would be very cheap. Wilson is 6-10 230 with a 7-3 wing span. He's played sparingly for Milwaukee over the past 3 years but has ties to Beilein and has shown range and has the length and size to develop as a defender. Or we could just try out some GLeague trash and hope someone sticks.

Option 2 - Not like guys like Rudy Gobert, Mitchell Robinson, Clint Capela, Jarett Allen, DeAndre Jordan, and your hero Hassan Whiteside among other solid NBA centers weren't picked between 20-40. I do agree no center is worth picking in the top 10 this year.

Option 3 - I think TT gets dealt by the deadline. He doesn't have a future here with the current core unless Koby can't find a taker and keeps him as the "vet leader".

Bonus. You mentioned Zizic likely not being brought back. Of course he won't be its not the 90s or early 00s his skill set just isn't made for the current NBA.

 

[Muffinalt]

Damian Lillard says Whiteside is a really good dude and not a cancer.

Damian Lillard Claims Hassan Whiteside Has Been 'Good' And Is 'A Really Good Dude'

Damian Lillard speaks out on Hassan Whiteside.

clutchpoints.com

"He’s a really good dude, a good teammate, he don’t cause trouble,” Lillard said.

Good enough for me.

Option 1 - "We should trade for a youngish center...."

Great idea. Who do you have in mind that is available and plays for a team that would trade him to Cleveland for something we would be willing to part with?

Options 2 - "Or hope we can pick the promising ones in the draft."

What promising ones would that be? You wonder whether Wiseman has any brains or game sense and has any offensive game besides rim running. You say you'd be "pretty scared" to draft him. Yet everybody I've seen says he's clearly the #1 center and will be the #1 or #2 pick in the draft. If the other pivotmen are well below him, then how scared are you to take one of them with our top 10 pick?

Option 3 - "Continue to ride TT". OK, well, you know he's a free agent and has a child in LA, right? My guess is he likes hanging out with celebrities and would rather get somewhere with more action if the money's the same. Oh, and how does sticking with TT (assuming it's even possible) IMPROVE our rim protection? It doesn't.

Which is why I keep coming back to Whiteside, a free agent who is way, way better than anybody we can get in the draft or any "youngish center" we could trade for, if that player even exists.

I don't think Thompson signs here and I don't think there is a young center sitting on somebody's bench that is available without giving up any cornerstone pieces and can be developed into a center that can start for an NBA Finals team. I don't think there is a college center who is a decent value in the top 10 except Wiseman and I don't think we'll have the 1st or 2nd pick.

I don't think we can get Whiteside, either, since he'll have options, so I think we might be screwed. I hope Altman has a plan because apparently he doesn't even want Ante back.

No, I said we should not be saddling ourselves with stopgap centers who are either limited in ways or can be liabilities. What's the point of that? So we can finish 5 wins higher?

We are in a position where we don't need to compromise because there is no pressure to compete. The draft isn't stock full of promising rim defenders, so why not explore trading options also? Our goal right now is trading our vets anyway. Robert Williams, Tony Bradley, Bruno Fernando, Danial Gafford? Steven Adams even? I don't know if they're available, if not wait for the time one does become attainable.

For the record I prefer to draft our own guy, or our own low pick project. But this draft isn't too full of them, so my second option is look for young promising ones around the league. If neither is an option stick with TT since we are still a bad team.for the foreseeable future. Bringing in a 30 year old questionable vet is the worst we could do.

National 'pundits' harping Wiseman is a lock for picks 1/2 is very uninformed. He might be picked high because people fall in love with his tools as opposed to his actual performance. I would be scared as I said because if we spend a top 10 puck of him, we'd be doing the same and praying he has the effort to turn his game around an utilize his assets. Same thing with Cam Raddish last year, and that's not turning out so well right now is it.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

We aren't going to contend for a championship any time soon. Why do we need a championship center? Also if Dame says Whiteside is good people it means its true? All the reports out of Miami were false? You really think any player gonna say there teammate isn't a good dude to the media?

Option 1 - Got some buy low guys Harry Giles and DJ Wilson would be very cheap. Wilson is 6-10 230 with a 7-3 wing span. He's played sparingly for Milwaukee over the past 3 years but has ties to Beilein and has shown range and has the length and size to develop as a defender. Or we could just try out some GLeague trash and hope someone sticks.

Option 2 - Not like guys like Rudy Gobert, Mitchell Robinson, Clint Capela, Jarett Allen, DeAndre Jordan, and your hero Hassan Whiteside among other solid NBA centers weren't picked between 20-40. I do agree no center is worth picking in the top 10 this year.

Option 3 - I think TT gets dealt by the deadline. He doesn't have a future here with the current core unless Koby can't find a taker and keeps him as the "vet leader".

Bonus. You mentioned Zizic likely not being brought back. Of course he won't be its not the 90s or early 00s his skill set just isn't made for the current NBA.

I think we'll be contending sooner than expected, especially if we were to get Whiteside. I love the way Porter and Garland are developing and we haven't even seen Windler yet. If Love can't be moved then a starting lineup of Whiteside, Love, Cedi, Garland and Porter with Nance, Windler, Sexton, and Exum coming off the bench plus our top 10 pick from next year's draft would be pretty darn competitive IMO.

Option 1 - Giles or Wilson. OK, Giles is listed as a power forward but at 6-10 could probably play center. Last year he averaged 14.1 minutes for the Kings. This year it's 7.4 minutes and the Kings are 12-19. What does that tell you? He apparently is their 3rd power forward.

Wilson averaged 18.4 minutes last year and 11.4 this year. Another young player whose minutes are decreasing, meaning the more they see him the less they want him to play. Despite being 6'10" he has 2 blocked shots in 182 minutes. I'm not sure why we would want a power forward off the end of somebody else's bench to be our starting center.

Option 2- "No center is worth picking in the top 10 this year." Well, that's where we'll be drafting so let's say we don't take one. Which brings me back to my question - who is our starting center next year?

Option 3 - Let's say you're right and TT gets traded and Zizic is not resigned. Who is our starting center next year? Your answer seems to be Giles or Wilson. Correct?

Whiteside should be a pretty damn good center for another four years. Centers can play well into their 30's. Take the team we have now, subtract TT and add Whiteside, subtract Henson and add a top 10 pick next year, and add Windler. Give Garland and Porter another 50 games of experience. That's a good team.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

No, I said we should not be saddling ourselves with stopgap centers who are either limited in ways or can be liabilities. What's the point of that? So we can finish 5 wins higher?

We are in a position where we don't need to compromise because there is no pressure to compete. The draft isn't stock full of promising rim defenders, so why not explore trading options also? Our goal right now is trading our vets anyway. Robert Williams, Tony Bradley, Bruno Fernando, Danial Gafford? Steven Adams even? I don't know if they're available, if not wait for the time one does become attainable.

For the record I prefer to draft our own guy, or our own low pick project. But this draft isn't too full of them, so my second option is look for young promising ones around the league. If neither is an option stick with TT since we are still a bad team.for the foreseeable future. Bringing in a 30 year old questionable vet is the worst we could do.

National 'pundits' harping Wiseman is a lock for picks 1/2 is very uninformed. He might be picked high because people fall in love with his tools as opposed to his actual performance. I would be scared as I said because if we spend a top 10 puck of him, we'd be doing the same and praying he has the effort to turn his game around an utilize his assets. Same thing with Cam Raddish last year, and that's not turning out so well right now is it.

I like Robert Williams after watching him destroy the Cavs in a preseason game this year. He isn't getting much playing time in Boston but he did have a game last month where he had 11 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 blocks in 22 minutes. You don't see many 6'8" centers but this guy plays big. Whether the Celtics have any interest in dealing him is the question. He played 19 minutes off the bench against Miami last week while Kanter played only six. I suspect they see him as the eventual replacement for Theis, who's averaging 7 points and 6 rebounds in 22 minutes as the starter.

Bradley is averaging 8.5 minutes per game in his third season after playing in 12 games his first two years. I'm sure he's available. Fernando and Gafford are getting 10-11 minutes for bad teams. They're both second round rookies. I don't know anything about these guys except they're young players who were not high draft picks and aren't getting a lot of minutes.

 

[Green Lantern]

Clarkson is wildly inconsistent. He'll have games where he is fantastic, and the shots are falling. Then he has games when the shots still aren't falling but he's chucking. As you say, he's a good fit as a bench player for a playoff team, because he's the kind of guy you can insert in a game in which you are struggling, and he just might win it for you. For a contending team where every win may matter, that has value. But for a young team where consistency is so important, and you're trying to promote ball movement, it's much less valuable.

I always know ,when he gets that wide open look in his eyes he's out to do one thing..shoot..or try to score.
If he was more under control he'd be a more valuable player.

 

[Green Lantern]

Does Altman have Jazz on speed dial. 3 years as GM 3 trades with Jazz. Hood. Korver. Now Clarkson. I don't mind Exum he has flashed and is a willing passer but is made of glass. I wish Koby would call a team outside of Utah though. Another team might have given a First+ Meh tract for Clarkson. Instead we got a meh contract and 2 2nds.

Well we know he won't be calling Boston anytime soon.

 

[inliner311]

Well we know he won't be calling Boston anytime soon.

I think if the Celtics come to the conclusion that they can't rely on Hayward to stay healthy and they come calling for Love. I think Koby will definitely listen. The Celtics have alot of young players and have some draft capital.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think if the Celtics come to the conclusion that they can't rely on Hayward to stay healthy and they come calling for Love. I think Koby will definitely listen. The Celtics have alot of young players and have some draft capital.

If they think Love can put them over the top. They're in second place behind Milwaukee. I'd love to get Robert Williams and a first round pick.

However, the Celtics have a really good power forward in Jayson Tatum. Love is not a replacement for Hayward.

They might be more interested in Tristan Thompson, who would be an upgrade over Kanter and Theis without the huge monetary commitment involved with Love's contract.

 

[inliner311]

If they think Love can put them over the top. They're in second place behind Milwaukee. I'd love to get Robert Williams and a first round pick.

However, the Celtics have a really good power forward in Jayson Tatum. Love is not a replacement for Hayward.

They might be more interested in Tristan Thompson, who would be an upgrade over Kanter and Theis without the huge monetary commitment involved with Love's contract.

I think the nice thing for the Celtics with Tatum and Brown is they can play positions 2-4 so they have the flexibility to add a SG, SF, or PF that will make their team better.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think the nice thing for the Celtics with Tatum and Brown is they can play positions 2-4 so they have the flexibility to add a SG, SF, or PF that will make their team better.

After watching today's game I don't think TT is an upgrade over Kanter, who outplayed him with 14 points and 9 boards in 23 minutes. He might be better than Theis, but Theis is starting over Kanter so maybe they like him better.

Love put up 30 against the second stingiest scoring defense in the league and none of those points were in garbage time, so that might have got their attention. His defense was abysmal, though.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Here's a column from a Jazz site about the significant positive impact Clarkson has already had on the team.

How Jordan Clarkson, in 3 games, has changed the Utah Jazz’s bench

www.deseret.com

Bottom line is they love the guy. They had the second lowest scoring bench in the league and he scored 19 and 20 the last two games going 7-for-13 from the field in each game.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I think we'll be contending sooner than expected, especially if we were to get Whiteside. I love the way Porter and Garland are developing and we haven't even seen Windler yet. If Love can't be moved then a starting lineup of Whiteside, Love, Cedi, Garland and Porter with Nance, Windler, Sexton, and Exum coming off the bench plus our top 10 pick from next year's draft would be pretty darn competitive IMO.

Option 1 - Giles or Wilson. OK, Giles is listed as a power forward but at 6-10 could probably play center. Last year he averaged 14.1 minutes for the Kings. This year it's 7.4 minutes and the Kings are 12-19. What does that tell you? He apparently is their 3rd power forward.

Wilson averaged 18.4 minutes last year and 11.4 this year. Another young player whose minutes are decreasing, meaning the more they see him the less they want him to play. Despite being 6'10" he has 2 blocked shots in 182 minutes. I'm not sure why we would want a power forward off the end of somebody else's bench to be our starting center.

Option 2- "No center is worth picking in the top 10 this year." Well, that's where we'll be drafting so let's say we don't take one. Which brings me back to my question - who is our starting center next year?

Option 3 - Let's say you're right and TT gets traded and Zizic is not resigned. Who is our starting center next year? Your answer seems to be Giles or Wilson. Correct?

Whiteside should be a pretty damn good center for another four years. Centers can play well into their 30's. Take the team we have now, subtract TT and add Whiteside, subtract Henson and add a top 10 pick next year, and add Windler. Give Garland and Porter another 50 games of experience. That's a good team.

Define contending. If we're talking about contending for a title, call me when we draft a guy that's a top 10 type talent in the league. At this point if you don't have one, you don't have a chance. Even then we'd likely be a minimum of 3-5 years away, and that's assuming Sexton, Garland, Porter, Cedi, etc all develop and stay healthy.

One other thing to consider: the Cavs currently sit at the #5 slot, but surprisingly are only 2.5 games out of the #11 slot. If we added Whiteside and kept Love, I think that very well could push us outside the top 10, thus sending our pick to ATL.

I don't think it turns the Cavs into a good team, but it might make them just good enough to lose our pick and be stuck paying Whiteside and Love $60 mill next year. No thanks.