The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[mrWalrus]

I can guarantee that there are zero front offices who give a shit what a guy hit with RISP for a season.

Kluber is still very much needed here. After Bieber and Clev, we have a lot of question marks. We need either him or Carrasco to return to 100% or close to it next year.

Also, it's kind of silly to suggest that highly paid players aren't hungry to win.

Wish I could agree with any thing you said. I think you're being incredibly naive.

 

[Derek]

Wish I could agree with any thing you said. I think you're being incredibly naive.

Then pick it apart. The first two things I said are absolutely true, but I can see that the third is mostly based in opinion.

 

[macbdog]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019...s-option-decline-options-on-kipnis-otero.html

The contract option decisions make plenty of sense. Announcing now puts to rest needless speculation That said I found a different item in the article very interesting....

As far as the coaching staff is concerned, manager Terry Francona announced that the team has dismissed bullpen coach Scott Atchison but will retain the rest of his staff for the 2020 season (Twitter link via Zack Meisel of The Athletic).

I have to think there is a back story on this & I am curious to hear it.
Atchison took over after the 2018 season where he was communicating things from the FO/ Analytics group to the pitching staff & soon there after Steve Karsay left the organization (& AAA pitching coach slot) to take over as the Brewers bullpen coach.

I'm also curious on who takes over the spot moving forward.

Atch was one of Francona's boys, wonder what that is all about. :hmm:

 

[sportscoach]

Initially, I figured it was a no-brainer to pick up Kluber's option until I saw it was 17.5 million. What the Tribe has to weigh is whether or not they can get comparable production for that 17.5 million in FA. The odds are 'no', so just like with Danny Salazar, they kind of have to take the chance and pick it up. Im not sure it does anything for them trade-wise; he's coming off a season lost to injury, only has the one season left, and is an obvious regression candidate at age 34, coming off a season lost to injuries and being an workhorse for 5 straight years. If he does well, the Tribe should be in contention and they don't trade him at the deadline. Hopefully Kluber can overcome the obvious obstacles, put aside whatever the setback was at the end of the season, find his mojo again after the slow start and the Tribe has something really cooking for next year.

Kluber no longer though needs to be our Ace though either. Look at the bright side of the season, we found some depth to the starting rotation and we got to develop essentially his replacement arm in due time. I am not worried about Kluber since he should actually be back healthier than he has been in a while. He got more rest this season than he has, so I look at that as a good thing not a bad thing. I mean 5 straight seasons with 200+ innings so with his mentality and a full off season of rest, he really might be stronger cause of that. Now we still may use him in the 1st spot in the rotation, he does not though have to carry this rotation anymore. If Carrasco and Kluber can come back healthy, with Bieber and Clev taking a step forward and us being 10 deep in starters, this is one scary rotation.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Figured it was a nicer way of phrasing it than to just call them idiots.

That's a little immature Derek. You're bigger than that.

 

[mrWalrus]

Then pick it apart. The first two things I said are absolutely true, but I can see that the third is mostly based in opinion.

I already did. It was in my original post.

You can't pay one guy (especially in a small market) the moon and hope to field a competitive team. Baseball is about chemistry and when one guy is making as much per at bat as one is per year, you're going to have a messed up chemistry. Not to mention, one guy cannot produce all the runs you need to win games. Especially when they hit .200 when anyone else is in scoring position.

You can't expect a guy whose going to be 34 to be a plus after he was shit to begin the season and 'threw out his oblique' after coming back from a broken bone in their arm. He'll never be the same pitcher again.

And after you have all the money the next 3 generations of your family needs to flourish (guaranteed) expect someone to play beyond what they have before or even up to what they were before they were trying to earn that paycheck. See Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and Keith Hernandez and John 'Hot Rod' Williams among the dozens and dozens of other players before them.

 

[Urban]

 

[Derek]

That's a little immature Derek. You're bigger than that.

What else do you want me to call them for saying we should decline Kluber's option and sign Puig? It's an supremely uniformed take.

I already did. It was in my original post.

You can't pay one guy (especially in a small market) the moon and hope to field a competitive team. Baseball is about chemistry and when one guy is making as much per at bat as one is per year, you're going to have a messed up chemistry. Not to mention, one guy cannot produce all the runs you need to win games. Especially when they hit .200 when anyone else is in scoring position.

You can't expect a guy whose going to be 34 to be a plus after he was shit to begin the season and 'threw out his oblique' after coming back from a broken bone in their arm. He'll never be the same pitcher again.

And after you have all the money the next 3 generations of your family needs to flourish (guaranteed) expect someone to play beyond what they have before or even up to what they were before they were trying to earn that paycheck. See Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and Keith Hernandez and John 'Hot Rod' Williams among the dozens and dozens of other players before them.

I agree that you can't have one player take up that much of your budget and expect to compete, but to to say that makes them no longer hungry to win is what I took exception to. Bryce Harper was still excellent this year, but the Phillies fell apart for other reasons.

As for the RISP thing, BA% with RISP is a useless stat in a single season. It's such a small sample size; you can't make any definitive conclusions.

You want to say it means Frankie isn't clutch? Well, guess what? He hit .324/.409/.441 in high leverage situation this year. Still, that's not really enough to tell you anything. It takes nearly 1,000 AB before BA% stabilizes. So, 44 high leverage AB's and 109 AB's with RISP is so far off from saying anything definitive.

 

[Otsego Mar]

What else do you want me to call them for saying we should decline Kluber's option and sign Puig? It's an supremely uniformed take.

Maybe they are 15 years old? Maybe they aren't into the anal-ytics you guys are? It's all good brother lol.

 

[Chris]

Not big on bringing Kluber back but... I agree that we kind of have to.

 

[Derek]

Maybe they are 15 years old? Maybe they aren't into the anal-ytics you guys are? It's all good brother lol.

Well, I tried to call them casual fans, which just means novice, but you took exception to that.

 

[Urban]

You can't pay one guy (especially in a small market) the moon and hope to field a competitive team.

Baseball is about chemistry and when one guy is making as much per at bat as one is per year, you're going to have a messed up chemistry.

The first part is true to an extent. The second part I disagree with. All across professional sports we see teams where 1 athlete makes x20 more than half of the team. It only causes chemistry issues if that player in an assshole.

You can't expect a guy whose going to be 34 to be a plus after he was shit to begin the season and 'threw out his oblique' after coming back from a broken bone in their arm. He'll never be the same pitcher again.

Why not?

I think it's a hell of a lot more likely the Indians get a good version of Kluber than a repeat 2019 Plesac and 2019 Civale, whose ERAs were a full run better than their FIP

And after you have all the money the next 3 generations of your family needs to flourish (guaranteed) expect someone to play beyond what they have before or even up to what they were before they were trying to earn that paycheck. See Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and Keith Hernandez and John 'Hot Rod' Williams among the dozens and dozens of other players before them.

Plenty of examples of players who did earn their paycheck. Baseball produces bad examples because so many of those contracts were signed when said players were around 30 years old; it was no wonder they wouldn't perform for the life of the contracts.

Harper is probably a bit overrated, especially now with his contract. But look at his numbers, he still had a pretty damn good season.

 

[sportscoach]

I already did. It was in my original post.

You can't pay one guy (especially in a small market) the moon and hope to field a competitive team. Baseball is about chemistry and when one guy is making as much per at bat as one is per year, you're going to have a messed up chemistry. Not to mention, one guy cannot produce all the runs you need to win games. Especially when they hit .200 when anyone else is in scoring position.

You can't expect a guy whose going to be 34 to be a plus after he was shit to begin the season and 'threw out his oblique' after coming back from a broken bone in their arm. He'll never be the same pitcher again.

And after you have all the money the next 3 generations of your family needs to flourish (guaranteed) expect someone to play beyond what they have before or even up to what they were before they were trying to earn that paycheck. See Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and Keith Hernandez and John 'Hot Rod' Williams among the dozens and dozens of other players before them.

Lindor is one of the captains of the team, the other guys wouldn't actually care that much he made his pay day, if anything they will congratulate him for getting it. They understand it is a business and @Urban just posted, this was Lindor's really only season that he has been really bad at RISP. Though I agree that because of budget restraints we cannot pay Lindor the open market, but with us bringing back almost everyone that was apart of a 93 win team, not sure why we would trade our captain and one of our best players. We are almost stuck ridding out Lindor's contract because we have such a good team in 2020 and 2021 (pretty much this projected 25 man roster is signed through both seasons). Lindor wants to win it all, otherwise we would have come back from 11 down in the central and getting back in the race in the Division. This team wants it so don't be like he won't be hungry. That isn't Lindor and he will always be hungry for wins and if his team mates arent then he will call them out.

Actually I feel the opposite way about Kluber. Kluber is a slow starter, and he has logged a lot of innings. The guy knows how to pitch and his velocity hasn't dropped yet. I think he will be fine for next season and if anything may actually be rested. When has he had a full off season to actually prepare his mind and body? I think with both Carrasco (as long as his blood work comes clean) and Kluber, should actually be in better shape than they have been for awhile. If Carrasco cannot start, I am positive he will be a solid reliever. I am way more worried about Carrasco than I am about Kluber.

 

[Steve_424]

Hoynes:

*The Indians will not exercise the 2020 options on second baseman Jason Kipnis and right-hander Dan Otero. The Indians have not closed the door on bringing back either played.

*Bullpen coach Scott Atchison was fired after two years on the job. The search has begun for his replacement. Atchison replaced bullpen Jason Bere, who was fired following the 2017 season.

*All-Star third baseman Jose Ramirez told the Indians he would move to second base if they want him to next year. He just doesn’t want to bounce between second and third. So he’ll either play second or third next year depending on what kind of upgrade they can find in an infielders.

*Antonetti said Francisco Lindor will not be traded and will play for the Tribe next year. He said they would continue to try and find common ground on a multiyear contract. Lindor can be a free agent after the 2021 season.

*Catcher Roberto Perez could undergo surgery on his right ankle. He is being examined by a specialist this week.

*The Indians anticipate Carlos Carrasco, diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukemia during the season, to come to spring training as a starting pitcher. He rejoined the Indians this year as a reliever.

*Tyler Naquin, who underwent surgery for a torn ACL, is rehabbing in Texas. GM Mike Chernoff says the normal rehab time for that injury is seven to nine months. Naquin was injured on Aug. 30 when he hit the left field fence at Tropicana Field.

*Francona said they’ll slow-play right-hander Shane Bieber in spring training to keep him fresh for next season. Bieber was pitching on fumes at the end of this year.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Someone needs a hug or a nap.

Keep the belittling out of Tribe talk, please & thank you.

This.

Posters are free to disagree with each other. But tone matters, and condescension and passive-aggressive bullshit are not welcome here. Didn't figure we'd have much of that right now, but it looks like some folks apparently are getting an early start on 2020....