The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[Kevalier]

About a 1/3 of the season is over and aside from Reyes the offense isn’t showing any signs of improvement. With the trade deadline in a couple weeks do we entertain trading Lindor, Clev or someone else not in the future plans?

I don’t think either of those two have done anything to increase their trade value so far this season albeit for different reasons.

 

[CDAV45]

I don’t think either of those two have done anything to increase their trade value so far this season albeit for different reasons.

Their respective trade values are as high as they've ever been. The only thing that may influence teams is this crazy weird season. Some may see a better opportunity while others may be more reserved. Either way, Clevinger and Lindor would/should both bring incredible hauls. I'm more inclined to deal Lindor if the Indians fall out of contention or look like a long shot.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

About a 1/3 of the season is over and aside from Reyes the offense isn’t showing any signs of improvement. With the trade deadline in a couple weeks do we entertain trading Lindor, Clev or someone else not in the future plans?

I'm going to guess the trade market this season is rather crappy. Teams will factor in if the season actually finishes into anything they want to give up.

 

[Gson]

I'm going to guess the trade market this season is rather crappy. Teams will factor in if the season actually finishes into anything they want to give up.

The trade market has been non-existent.. it has to improve to get all the way up to crappy..

That said.. any deal from the Indians to whomever.. has to help the Indians both now and into the future.. A top dozen or so SP and or the best SS in the game.. are both going to return massive upgrades to the Indians in the future, at least.. There are several teams that could use the best SS in MLB.. all of them could use an SP..

Let the "nothing happening" begin !!

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

19 games into a 60-game season and the Indians are 10-9, but to be fair, they've played 12 of 19 against the Twins, White Sox, and Cubs. Next up is nine games against the Tigers and Pirates after a day off. This is an opportunity to make some hay. I'd like to see 6-3 at a minimum. The Pirates are 3-13. If we can sweep them and go 4-2 against the Tigers we'd be 17-11 going into the Twins series.

However, there are a couple of problems.

One, the team continues to flounder at the dish. The team BA is .192. Going into last night's game the 6-9 spots in the order were hitting .122. The Indians are dead last in runs per game and it's not close. If anybody told me we'd be 30th in runs at this point or that we'd have six outfielders hitting under .200 I would not have believed it. The Indians really need to look into this and review what they were doing during the three-week summer camp. They can't blame cold weather for a slow offensive start this time.

Two, they just lost two starting pitchers for who knows how long? And what effect will this have on team chemistry? The good thing is these guys aren't injured. Hopefully they aren't COVID positive. If they aren't, they will be ready to pitch long before they are needed to start a game. When they do return they should be super motivated to make it up to their teammates.

There is also a potential problem with Francona's health. He may not make it through the season. It sounds like he's in constant pain with his hip and back not to mention the uncontrolled muscle spasms. It's not like they don't have Sandy Alomar ready to step in, but Tito's situation is something of a wild card. I hope the doctors can get his problems stabilized and manageable.

For me the biggest development at this early stage is the performances of Civale, Plesac, and Carrasco. Nobody really knew if Cookie could go back to being a starter or whether he would have to finish his career in the bullpen, but so far he looks like every bit the starter he was and his illness seems to be under control. This is huge because he is under contract for three more seasons after this one.

Civale and Plesac showed promise last year in their first exposure to the bigs but there was some question, at least on this board, whether they could sustain and even improve on last year. With ERA's of 2.84 (Civale) and 1.89 (Plesac) after three starts each the early returns are very positive. Civale and Plesac are each making $563 K this year and will be under team control for five more years after this season. They won't be arbitration eligibe for two more years. IOW, if they continue to pitch even close to this level they will be worth their weight in gold, especially to a cash-strapped franchise like this one.

Another positive development is the strong early performances of Karinchak, Cimber, Maton, and Leone in the bullpen. Cam Hill was solid except for one disastrous appearance. And we have Clase returning next year. If these young guys can prove they can sling it up here it will be huge because Hand is looking shaky after five years of hard use and Perez is 38. Wittgren looks like a nice find. The framework of the bullpen of the future is shaping up nicely, but it's still too early to carve anything in stone. Gotta love what we're seeing from Karinchak, though.

 

[ncinthenext3]

I'm seeing a lot of guys out on the front foot trying to pull off speed pitches. I'd love to see stats about if the team is seeing more of those than other seasons. As a team they're just not letting the ball travel deep in order to take an oppo aproach. It might sound cliche' but they're swinging at too many 'pitcher's' pitches, and not their own. Almost 1/3 of the season gone and they're one game over .500 with this terrible hitting. One could see that as a great sign but pitching sure better hold up. They need to make some hay against the Tigers and this Pirates team coming up.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I'm seeing a lot of guys out on the front foot trying to pull off speed pitches. I'd love to see stats about if the team is seeing more of those than other seasons. As a team they're just not letting the ball travel deep in order to take an oppo aproach. It might sound cliche' but they're swinging at too many 'pitcher's' pitches, and not their own. Almost 1/3 of the season gone and they're one game over .500 with this terrible hitting. One could see that as a great sign but pitching sure better hold up. They need to make some hay against the Tigers and this Pirates team coming up.

I was thinking the same thing watching the Tribe's hitters pulling a lot of outside breaking balls on the ground against the Cubs' soft tossers the last couple of days. Lindor, Hosey, Santana - they were all doing it. Reyes is the one guy who goes oppo a lot and guess what - 12 hits in his last six games!

Last night Hendricks was feasting on the change-up down and away to our lefties. They were out in front and rolling over on it every time. Lots of weak ground balls to the right side. Rizzo was getting a lot of unassisted outs on weak rollers down the line. I'd love to see somebody just wait until the ball is deep in the zone and then bang it into left field against the shift.

It's an effective approach against the Indians' lefties - shift the infield to the right side and throw off-speed pitches away. Lots of ground balls into the shift. It's time for Tito or whoever the hitting coach is to say something and say it with some forcefulness. This is embarrassing. Last in baseball in scoring.

 

[ncinthenext3]

I was thinking the same thing watching the Tribe's hitters pulling a lot of outside breaking balls on the ground against the Cubs' soft tossers the last couple of days. Lindor, Hosey, Santana - they were all doing it. Reyes is the one guy who goes oppo a lot and guess what - 12 hits in his last six games!

Last night Hendricks was feasting on the change-up down and away to our lefties. They were out in front and rolling over on it every time. Lots of weak ground balls to the right side. Rizzo was getting a lot of unassisted outs on weak rollers down the line. I'd love to see somebody just wait until the ball is deep in the zone and then bang it into left field against the shift.

It's an effective approach against the Indians' lefties - shift the infield to the right side and throw off-speed pitches away. Lots of ground balls into the shift. It's time for Tito or whoever the hitting coach is to say something and say it with some forcefulness. This is embarrassing. Last in baseball in scoring.

I swear if I catch myself saying "rolled over on it again" I'm gonna be sick. They're just not consistently driving the baseball, with the possible exception of Reyes very recently.

 

[CATS44]

In re the two pitchers and comments that infer that fans can't know what members of the front office and team are thinking...

Since there have been multiple statements from team mates, the manager, and the front office...and also multiple reports from local media attesting to the anger throughout the org...its very clear what those folks are thinking.

*************************

In re the lack of hitting...

These guys are trying, but not succeeding...except for Jose, Hernandez. , and Reyes at the moment.

Reyes has reverted to his most successful approach, which has always been center right.

In the last week his balls in play have been equally divided left-center- right, and he has not grounded out to the left side one time.

For a big guy, he still doesn't have much launch angle, but it is improving somewhat. He's not Yandy Diaz in launch angle, but he has a long ways to go.



.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Continue....

 

[Mott the Hoople]

So anyway,,,,,
Here we are about a third of the way through the season.
On the down side, we have maybe the worst hitting team in MLB.
On the plus side, despite that, we are above 500 and one of the favorites for the wild card. So what can be done to improve the offense.

The OF is a disaster. The ceiling for all of our outfielders seems to be mediocre at best. We have an outfielder who could be a great hitter: George Valera. But he's not ready to help yet.
If you want to trade a SP, you should be able to acquire an OF who is better than anyone we have now.
Would the Angels talk about Jo Adell for Clevinger? Maybe. Do they need a rookie OF in that lineup? I don't think so.

 

[sportscoach]

@Huber. is trolling. You'll learn to just ignore the trolls in this section eventually.

He doesn't always troll, i call him a respectful troll who likes to have fun and once in awhile have a legit statement @Huber.

 

[TheAdmin]

Just dropped in to remind everyone to play nice. Keep politics out of this part of the forum.

 

[CATS44]

Adell is a logical name in any speculation about trading a pitcher.

But he is more future than present, and I'm not sure that the FO would want to throw this season away yet.

Also, I'm not sure that twenty games of truly ugly performance is enough to totally define the ceilings of our outfielders as mediocre.

Until all the oddities of this season descended, a Naquin/Luplow platoon looked pretty darn good on paper. Mercado had a nice rookie season for us, and 42 at bats doesn't change that. I'm not a Domingo fan, but he has 1600 career at bats in which he has put up decent numbers, and at times when healthy, much better than average numbers.

I just wish that the powers that be would make a freaking decision, and run the same guys out there every night for several weeks. It couldn't be any worse than what we've seen.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Adell is a logical name in any speculation about trading a pitcher.

But he is more future than present, and I'm not sure that the FO would want to throw this season away yet.

Also, I'm not sure that twenty games of truly ugly performance is enough to totally define the ceilings of our outfielders as mediocre.

Until all the oddities of this season descended, a Naquin/Luplow platoon looked pretty darn good on paper. Mercado had a nice rookie season for us, and 42 at bats doesn't change that. I'm not a Domingo fan, but he has 1600 career at bats in which he has put up decent numbers, and at times when healthy, much better than average numbers.

I just wish that the powers that be would make a freaking decision, and run the same guys out there every night for several weeks. It couldn't be any worse than what we've seen.

I think Tito should tinker the lineup (somehow) just a bit. Maybe put Frankie leadoff and even put the Slamtana boys back to back 5-6. I also think Domingo should be out there.

I'd try something like:

1. Lindor
2. Hernandez
3. Ramirez
4. Reyes
5. C. Santana
6. D. Santana
7. Naquin/Mercado
8. Perez
9. DeShields

Carlos has been walking a lot so you may want to keep him where he is. Maybe move Domingo back down a slot also. For sure, I would put Frankie leadoff to try and boost his confidence and just try something different.

You have to think that somebody from the outfield is going to start picking it up offensively between Domingo, Mercado, and Naquin/DeShields coming back. I would also like to think the return of Perez will help.