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The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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20 something year old kids have no fear of the virus and are living their lives accordingly. They will go to bars, get hammered, hook up. That’s what they do. Now, these guys make a TON of money to play a game; you want to teach them, hammer them financially.
 
The Indians have 10 days to deal with this before they will need one of these guys to start a game, although it looked like they may have been auditioning Logan Allen last night, having him throw 60 pitches. They could just slide Plutko and Allen into those spots for as long as they want. We'll see what they do, but it would obviously be a drop-off in talent.

Clevinger said all the right things, or did he? He said he was wrong in not "immediately coming clean". Does that mean he had a change of heart and came clean when they got back to Cleveland? Or does that mean he got caught and then "came clean" after being confronted with the evidence? Which is not the same thing, not by a long shot.

The fact that they are "at different stages of acceptance" may also play into it. It sounds like one of them really doesn't see what is the big deal.

This is an unusual situation because the players got together and made a code of conduct for themselves before the season started. And now they had team meetings, one with the coaches and one with players only, to discuss the situation. Normally it's management who decides on fines, suspensions, etc when there is a rules violation. In this case it seems the players are involved, although to what extent I don't know. Who decides how this plays out? The front office? The players? The front office with player input?
 
Current team stats show the Tribe are best pitching and worst batting team in the league. To be over .500 with putrid hitting leads me to believe things will look good once the batting normalizes.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
The Indians have 10 days to deal with this before they will need one of these guys to start a game, although it looked like they may have been auditioning Logan Allen last night, having him throw 60 pitches. They could just slide Plutko and Allen into those spots for as long as they want. We'll see what they do, but it would obviously be a drop-off in talent.

Clevinger said all the right things, or did he? He said he was wrong in not "immediately coming clean". Does that mean he had a change of heart and came clean when they got back to Cleveland? Or does that mean he got caught and then "came clean" after being confronted with the evidence? Which is not the same thing, not by a long shot.

The fact that they are "at different stages of acceptance" may also play into it. It sounds like one of them really doesn't see what is the big deal.

This is an unusual situation because the players got together and made a code of conduct for themselves before the season started. And now they had team meetings, one with the coaches and one with players only, to discuss the situation. Normally it's management who decides on fines, suspensions, etc when there is a rules violation. In this case it seems the players are involved, although to what extent I don't know. Who decides how this plays out? The front office? The players? The front office with player input?
Click to expand...
Clevinger's apology was better written.

I don't think it matters.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
 
May have missed this quote already posted, but interesting quote from Tito, allow you mind to run on what he means:

"On his conversations with Clevinger and Plesac: They’re probably at different stages of understanding. I don’t want to get into it too much. I don’t think it’s appropriate to have a really personal conversation with somebody and then run to the media about it. I don’t feel good about that. I guess I would just say they’re in different stages of acceptance. "
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
The Indians have 10 days to deal with this before they will need one of these guys to start a game, although it looked like they may have been auditioning Logan Allen last night, having him throw 60 pitches. They could just slide Plutko and Allen into those spots for as long as they want. We'll see what they do, but it would obviously be a drop-off in talent.

Clevinger said all the right things, or did he? He said he was wrong in not "immediately coming clean". Does that mean he had a change of heart and came clean when they got back to Cleveland? Or does that mean he got caught and then "came clean" after being confronted with the evidence? Which is not the same thing, not by a long shot.

The fact that they are "at different stages of acceptance" may also play into it. It sounds like one of them really doesn't see what is the big deal.

This is an unusual situation because the players got together and made a code of conduct for themselves before the season started. And now they had team meetings, one with the coaches and one with players only, to discuss the situation. Normally it's management who decides on fines, suspensions, etc when there is a rules violation. In this case it seems the players are involved, although to what extent I don't know. Who decides how this plays out? The front office? The players? The front office with player input?
Click to expand...
clevinger's statement was well written.. delivery was tardy..

The question becomes..what is the right thing to say at that point??.. Sorry for not coming clean immediately is admitting the earlier acts were wrong/poor.. Plesac DID come clean immediately but, it doesn't change the unanswered question:

That is, take the converse of believing in the sequestration of their freedoms: Do either/both Clevinger & Plesac really believe they should be imprisoned into a constant/restrained bubble in order to do what only they can do?.. Would you give up your freedom for other reasons.. At the end of the game.. don't these guys leave the bubble and go home?.. stop at a drive thru?.. Go to the grocery store to get some stuff?. isn't this the same thing?.. in public.. exposed.. or are there limits on the limits?. where does it end?..

Argument can be raised in both directions.. with the full understanding that indignation and guilt aren't very strong stances to take..

Thoughts?..
 
the problem isnt the statement, it's the action - - but since you're not allowing indignation, well, see you on the town tonight clev
 
Gson said:
clevinger's statement was well written.. delivery was tardy..

The question becomes..what is the right thing to say at that point??.. Sorry for not coming clean immediately is admitting the earlier acts were wrong/poor.. Plesac DID come clean immediately but, it doesn't change the unanswered question:

That is, take the converse of believing in the sequestration of their freedoms: Do either/both Clevinger & Plesac really believe they should be imprisoned into a constant/restrained bubble in order to do what only they can do?.. Would you give up your freedom for other reasons.. At the end of the game.. don't these guys leave the bubble and go home?.. stop at a drive thru?.. Go to the grocery store to get some stuff?. isn't this the same thing?.. in public.. exposed.. or are there limits on the limits?. where does it end?..

Argument can be raised in both directions.. with the full understanding that indignation and guilt aren't very strong stances to take..

Thoughts?..
Click to expand...

Then they shouldn't have signed the contract to follow the policies set forth. They should have opted out.
 
Bottom line in regards to Clev...

There is no way to "prove" his sincerity. Either you choose to believe him/forgive him and accept it as real or you (well me) don't and believe he had no choice to issue a statement like this. Maybe even the FO prepared it for him.. Does he mean/believe it? Probably not IMO.
 
Inferring from what Tito said, SOMEBODY didn't 'get' it.

And that adds to the orgs problem.
 
About a 1/3 of the season is over and aside from Reyes the offense isn’t showing any signs of improvement. With the trade deadline in a couple weeks do we entertain trading Lindor, Clev or someone else not in the future plans?
 
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