The 2021 Cleveland Baseball Organization

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mopete12

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You mean like we just did in 2018-2019, where our average payroll was over 130 million?

I've asked this question multiple times. Nobody has a specific example.

From their own mouths, the organization has basically done everything it can, and hasn't made a bad move. They still don't like it. It's somehow flawless and awful at the same time.

I'm beginning to believe they don't have a genuine critique. They just like to be curmudgeons.
Only things I can think of are keeping Carrasco and signing a major league CF or 1B, but then who knows what they would have got in return only for Lindor and I don’t have any names off the top of my head for the CF or 1B. I still wouldn’t want them to spend Springer money. Also, who knows how Carrasco holds up health-wise.

Other option is to keep Bauer until the off-season, but then again, who knows how much less they would have gotten in return. Also, he was really bad that half year, which wouldn’t have helped the Indians if he pitched like that in Cleveland.

No front office is perfect, but the Indians front office is absolutely great.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Only things I can think of are keeping Carrasco and signing a major league CF or 1B, but then who knows what they would have got in return only for Lindor and I don’t have any names off the top of my head for the CF or 1B. I still wouldn’t want them to spend Springer money. Also, who knows how Carrasco holds up health-wise.

Other option is to keep Bauer until the off-season, but then again, who knows how much less they would have gotten in return. Also, he was really bad that half year, which wouldn’t have helped the Indians if he pitched like that in Cleveland.

No front office is perfect, but the Indians front office is absolutely great.
Cookie tore his hamstring and hasn't pitched this year.

I'd say trading him was, undoubtedly, the right move.
 

Cassity14

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If the Indians were able to have a monstrous payroll, I think trades of guys like Bauer and Clevinger would have brought back more quality ML talent. Getting guys pre-arb wouldn't have been such a focus.

Trades across the MLB landscape would look so different with a more even playing field, imo.
 

mopete12

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Cookie tore his hamstring and hasn't pitched this year.

I'd say trading him was, undoubtedly, the right move.
I’m aware of that, which is part of the reason for my health comment. I don’t know if anyone can say that he would have the same injury if he was still on the Indians. Was his hamstring a ticking time bomb or just a freak thing? Also, he is currently throwing simulated games and it’s not like he’s going to miss half the season or anything.

If the Indians had $60-$70M more to spend, I think he would fit very well on the roster. The back end of the rotation has plenty of questions and he would provide stability.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I’m aware of that, which is part of the reason for my health comment. I don’t know if anyone can say that he would have the same injury if he was still on the Indians. Was his hamstring a ticking time bomb or just a freak thing? Also, he is currently throwing simulated games and it’s not like he’s going to miss half the season or anything.

If the Indians had $60-$70M more to spend, I think he would fit very well on the roster. The back end of the rotation has plenty of questions and he would provide stability.
We moved on from an asset when it still had positive value, before it turned negative.

You can play hypothetical all you want, but Cookie had more value when we traded him than he does right now.

Personally, I don't think this is a year for WS contention. I think it's a year to figure out what we have. I'd rather have Logan Allen and TMac pitching than having Cookie blocking them.
 

MattyFos.

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A lot of the bitchiness in here about trading players is the emotional investment fans make in the players and it gets annoying to watch player after player rise through the farm, make a name for themselves, become a local hero and get traded because the Indians aren't able to sign them. Who was traded for Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore.. was it Bartolo? Then some years later we trade Cliff for some more prospects that we invest in and rinse wash repeat.

That can be annoying and imo has a negative impact on attendance and support. When Manny left, I left. I grew up watching him. He was my favorite player (not including Baerga). I'm sure there's a generation of kids who will feel the same way about Lindor. Prolly not Bauer though cause he's a little odd.
 

CDAV45

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I may be stating the obvious here, but I like how this organization is run even if I don't agree with every decision made. It doesn't have to be so absolute with me. I love the fact that this organization can't buy it's way out of bad decisions or philosophies. Moves are strategic. Multiple facets are considered sometimes years in advance a move is made.

The one thing that I don't like is that in an organization ran as this one is patience needs to be had with guys like Bauers and Zimmer. I would have moved on long before now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that would have been the right move. I would certainly be more aggressive with my young players and hoarding talent will always be a good idea IMO.
 

prf100

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I may be stating the obvious here, but I like how this organization is run even if I don't agree with every decision made. It doesn't have to be so absolute with me. I love the fact that this organization can't buy it's way out of bad decisions or philosophies. Moves are strategic. Multiple facets are considered sometimes years in advance a move is made.

The one thing that I don't like is that in an organization ran as this one is patience needs to be had with guys like Bauers and Zimmer. I would have moved on long before now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that would have been the right move. I would certainly be more aggressive with my young players and hoarding talent will always be a good idea IMO.
I don’t like that the Indians have to let go of so many players I care about, but I do appreciate how well the Indians execute their strategy.
 

Peachtree

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I may be stating the obvious here, but I like how this organization is run even if I don't agree with every decision made. It doesn't have to be so absolute with me. I love the fact that this organization can't buy it's way out of bad decisions or philosophies. Moves are strategic. Multiple facets are considered sometimes years in advance a move is made.

The one thing that I don't like is that in an organization ran as this one is patience needs to be had with guys like Bauers and Zimmer. I would have moved on long before now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that would have been the right move. I would certainly be more aggressive with my young players and hoarding talent will always be a good idea IMO.
They do a great job of being unemotional and playing around the margins. Tampa is another great example.

My biggest beef is what does it hurt to supplement? Why can’t they bring in a few Brantleys or Ozunas to fill a hole? It’s inexcusable that a team like KC is eating $40 mil more in salaries while we have the pitching to make serious noise.

Brantley is making $16 mil this year and even with the Rosario signing, we would easily be in the bottom five, maybe even bottom three, team salaries if we brought someone of his caliber on board.

In my heart I thought if we’d have a pitcher like Bieber locked in at $600k and a perennial MVP candidate locked in at an extremely team friendly deal, we would at least go for it a little harder.
 

BimboColesHair

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Food for thought.

In the 2010s/Tito era the Indians have failed to extend 1 player when they’ve decided to go all-in on extending them; Lindor. End of list. And they offered him a record breaking pre-arbitration extension.

Think too many fans still bring the 90s and mid/late 2000s departures into how they are operating in the late 2010s and 2020s.

The Indians are 100% cheap, but their cheapness requires context. They have a high success rate of extending in-house talent beyond their arbitration years. They aren’t cheap in that regard.

They’re cheap with all the other stuff. External free agents, short term trade acquisitions, etc. But they’re cheap there so they can do what I just mentioned and still have some breathing room to potentially tip it over the edge (Encarnacion).

Indians MO is apparent now that anything they do or don’t do shouldn’t surprise fans. They value their own talent and reward it early on in the hopes of gaining a team friendly extra 2 or 3 years. They do that with what they identify as their core (think Brantley, Kipnis, Kluber, Carrasco, Santana) and add in house pieces around that. If an opportunity presents itself that they want to spend on what they might view as the “missing piece” to get them over the hump, operating in that sense allows them to do just that.
 

Cassity14

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I’m aware of that, which is part of the reason for my health comment. I don’t know if anyone can say that he would have the same injury if he was still on the Indians. Was his hamstring a ticking time bomb or just a freak thing? Also, he is currently throwing simulated games and it’s not like he’s going to miss half the season or anything.

If the Indians had $60-$70M more to spend, I think he would fit very well on the roster. The back end of the rotation has plenty of questions and he would provide stability.

This line of thinking is all swell and good, but the opposite tune was sung around here regarding Kluber, specifically how his injuries and ineffectiveness were clear signs the Indians held on to him too long.
 
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Mott the Hoople

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Here's a news note,,,,,,
Last year the Miami Marlins were paid $18 million for their local broadcast rights.
Yesterday, they signed a new deal with Sinclair Broadcasting (aka Bally Sports) for $50 million annually.
That's quite a jump.
Bally Sports also has the Indians broadcast rights. I don't know when that contract is up. But it might be worth re- negotiating. Don't you agree Mr. Dolan?
 

Obscured By Clouds

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Here's a news note,,,,,,
Last year the Miami Marlins were paid $18 million for their local broadcast rights.
Yesterday, they signed a new deal with Sinclair Broadcasting (aka Bally Sports) for $50 million annually.
That's quite a jump.
Bally Sports also has the Indians broadcast rights. I don't know when that contract is up. But it might be worth re- negotiating. Don't you agree Mr. Dolan?
If its the 10 year deal, its up after 2022 season. There are reports it extends until 2027, though.
 

mopete12

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We moved on from an asset when it still had positive value, before it turned negative.

You can play hypothetical all you want, but Cookie had more value when we traded him than he does right now.

Personally, I don't think this is a year for WS contention. I think it's a year to figure out what we have. I'd rather have Logan Allen and TMac pitching than having Cookie blocking them.
Lol yes, I am playing hypothetical because I am responding to your hypothetical question about what the Indians would do different if they had a larger budget!

Because of the reduced innings for starting pitchers in 2020 and McKenzie’s durability questions, I think there are going to be plenty of innings for a 6th or 7th starting pitcher this year while still giving plenty of innings to McKenzie and Allen. Starting pitching depth is actually a question mark for the Indians this year. If one of the starters gets hurt or is unsuccessful, who replaces him in the rotation? Quantrill will need to build up his arm from being in the bullpen and Hentges hasn’t shown success as a starter in AAA. Yes if you don’t think the Indians can compete, then you can throw Morgan or Hentges out there and see what happens, but the Indians at least say publicly that they think they can win this year (whether they believe that or not).

If the Indians had $50 million more to spend this year, I think $14M for Carrasco would be a prudent way to spend it. I’m not disagreeing with the hypothetical you proposed; I think the front office has done a great job, but I don’t think they would do the exact same things if they had a larger budget.
 
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Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Lol yes, I am playing hypothetical because I am responding to your hypothetical question about what the Indians would do different if they had a larger budget!

Because of the reduced innings for starting pitchers in 2020 and McKenzie’s durability questions, I think there are going to be plenty of innings for a 6th or 7th starting pitcher this year while still giving plenty of innings to McKenzie and Allen. Starting pitching depth is actually a question mark for the Indians this year. If one of the starters gets hurt or is unsuccessful, who replaces him in the rotation? Quantrill will need to build up his arm from being in the bullpen and Hentges hasn’t shown success as a starter in AAA. Yes if you don’t think the Indians can compete, then you can throw Morgan or Hentges out there and see what happens, but the Indians at least say publicly that they think they can win this year (whether they believe that or not).

If the Indians had $50 million more to spend this year, I think $14M for Carrasco would be a prudent way to spend it. I’m not disagreeing with the hypothetical you proposed; I think the front office has done a great job, but I don’t think they would do the exact same things if they had a larger budget.
Nobody asked what would the organization do differently if we had a larger budget. Obviously we'd do different things, otherwise our budget wouldn't be larger...

The question was what moves have we made because of budget constraints that have negatively impacted the team so far. And again, I still don't have a specific... unless you're stating that trading Cookie, who hasn't pitched in the MLB since we traded him, has hurt the organization. In which case I disagree.
 
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