The 2021 Cleveland Baseball Organization

[BimboColesHair]

Not what I am told by others that do/have pitch(ed) with him, but I haven't got it from Biebs mouth directly so you could be right. And not what some of the FO folks that handle pitchers have told me either.

There's probably ~60% of their pitchers that use something.

Bieber is all sunscreen, sweat, and rosin bag. He's not bringing in anything like Cole or even Karinchak.

Karinchak has now gone to sunscreen, sweat, and rosin on his forearm after the glove incident and the crackdown.

Rosin/rosin bag has been around for over a century. Sunscreen is sunscreen, can't tell players not to use it. Doesn't have as big of an effect as the other stuff, but I wouldn't classify it as the "sticky stuff" that is causing such a shit storm right now.

 

[jup]

Not sure where and who I saw post something about Bart and they better have him on speed dial within the last couple days ... but whomever it was is a true clairvoyant !!!

 

[jup]

General rule of thumb.. the number of weeks a starting pitcher is down/can't throw.. is the amount of time it will take to get him back to where he was at...

...and he has to be 100 %.. a shoulder issue is always a question w/r to the actual injury and the time table for return...

Within reason Gson - if you are out 2 months it doesn't take 2 months to ramp up. There is a maximum length of time pitchers usually take, that is kind of how the length of spring training came to be.

 

[jup]

There's probably ~60% of their pitchers that use something.

Bieber is all sunscreen, sweat, and rosin bag. He's not bringing in anything like Cole or even Karinchak.

Karinchak has now gone to sunscreen, sweat, and rosin on his forearm after the glove incident and the crackdown.

Rosin/rosin bag has been around for over a century. Sunscreen is sunscreen, can't tell players not to use it. Doesn't have as big of an effect as the other stuff, but I wouldn't classify it as the "sticky stuff" that is causing such a shit storm right now.

Fair enough. If you consider sweat/sunscreen/rosin normal, than that would be accurate.

And it is correct that the shit storm is all about stuff like Pelican/Spider Tack and all its derivatives

But there is some talk (at the GM level) that they could go to banning EVERYTHING and take the rosin bag off the mound. So if your hands are tacky, sun screen, sweat and rosin or not when they come out to check - you are done.

Not sure how they enforce it without the umps wearing a path through the infield grass to the mound, but that was the talk yesterday at least.

 

[MadThinker88]

I can probably give them slowly. Start where we should, the beginning. It is not a secret, Jake Bauers was not well liked by about 97% of the organization from the top all the way down to the player lot parking attendants.

First impressions are key. Yandy was well liked by the Latin American group of players (Lindor, Ramirez, Perez, Encarnacion, etc.) so right off the bat he had a lot of ground to make up as he was the return for a well liked guy and a well liked older guy in Encarnacion. Every position player but 2 reported early to ST that year (about 5 days before the official report date). 1 was a guy who I believe just had a kid, that I'm struggling to remember right now. The other was Bauers. Strike one.

He also had a habit of referring to himself in the 3rd person when he was first acquired. Definitely a bit of youth shining through on that one (he was only 23 that season), but most of the 3rd person references he made in the clubhouse had to do with what he was doing after the game, which I am sure you can figure out what they were about. Strike 2.

The one that tipped the scales for him the most early on was a prominent and well respected veteran on the team at the time that I won't name offered to take him under his wing, travel with him on the road, hit with him in the cages, sit next to him in the dugout to tell him what he's seeing, etc. to try and help him as much as possible. This was done as a suggestion brought to Tito by the veteran player because he noticed Bauers work habits were not quite at the professional level. Bauers cold-shouldered the vet. Strike 3, and it wasn't until most of the roster was purged that he finally grew close to some guys. No one wanted to be near him year 1.

Stunning that with all this (and the forth coming items), that Bauers got 1 more chance with the team to start 2021.

My lone hope is that this situation (mistake) has positively impacted the Tribe FO/ staff (like other items in the past) to review/ modify/ update its way of doing & handling situations to minimize the chance of a repeat with someone else...

 

[BimboColesHair]

Fair enough. If you consider sweat/sunscreen/rosin normal, than that would be accurate.

And it is correct that the shit storm is all about stuff like Pelican/Spider Tack and all its derivatives

But there is some talk (at the GM level) that they could go to banning EVERYTHING and take the rosin bag off the mound. So if your hands are tacky, sun screen, sweat and rosin or not when they come out to check - you are done.

Not sure how they enforce it without the umps wearing a path through the infield grass to the mound, but that was the talk yesterday at least.

I actually think they make a standardized product akin to that combo (sunscreen, sweat, rosin) and ban everything else to level the playing field. Big reason for the testing, IMO.

I mentioned this a few weeks back, league office was asking every MLB team to surrender a lot of their real time data on pitchers as they were collecting balls. I think that's how they're going to enforce it.

Have a standardized product that adds tack but not to the extent we are seeing this season, but then everything else is a "banned substance" that they'd be able to spot with real time metrics to test what is on the ball and anything banned registers a steep suspension that gets harsher for repeat offenders, similar to the banned substances program.

 

[Criznit]

Take a golf ball washer that commonly dot our nation's golf courses and modify it to accommodate baseballs. Position device in vicinity of home plate umpire so he can have freshly washed balls ready for the pitcher to handle.... Contract with Dyson to create a high efficiency ball dryer..

Problem....uhhh. solved.

 

[jup]

I actually think they make a standardized product akin to that combo (sunscreen, sweat, rosin) and ban everything else to level the playing field. Big reason for the testing, IMO.

I mentioned this a few weeks back, league office was asking every MLB team to surrender a lot of their real time data on pitchers as they were collecting balls. I think that's how they're going to enforce it.

Have a standardized product that adds tack but not to the extent we are seeing this season, but then everything else is a "banned substance" that they'd be able to spot with real time metrics to test what is on the ball and anything banned registers a steep suspension that gets harsher for repeat offenders, similar to the banned substances program.

Well that is the only solution - legalize and standardize. Not sure if the MLB has the balls to go there.

When this whole flap really began, many many moons ago, as far as an outcry from that lone wolf, that was the purpose - even the playing field. He has been an advocate for legalization from the get go, and has told the commissioner and his people that directly. Because policing it any other way is really not doable. But it took several years of education as to what the real impacts of it were before a critical mass formed to get something done.

Education done, critical mass achieved, no turning back now. Time for MLB to shit or get off the pot and give some clarity as to where we go from here. And the sooner the better because pitchers across the league would like to know what rules they are supposed to be playing under.

 

[Huber.]

 

[Stark]

My main thing with Bauers is that he was really bad. Legitimately horrible - he'll be making my "all shit" team of the 2020's for sure.

Also, we're now down to one quality major league starter with Bieber and Plesac out. This is why I was in the camp of acquiring somebody like Jon Gray, just in case anybody was wondering. Civale better go 8+ innings every time he pitches unless the bullpen wants to implode.

 

[jup]

There's probably ~60% of their pitchers that use something.

Bieber is all sunscreen, sweat, and rosin bag. He's not bringing in anything like Cole or even Karinchak.

Karinchak has now gone to sunscreen, sweat, and rosin on his forearm after the glove incident and the crackdown.

Rosin/rosin bag has been around for over a century. Sunscreen is sunscreen, can't tell players not to use it. Doesn't have as big of an effect as the other stuff, but I wouldn't classify it as the "sticky stuff" that is causing such a shit storm right now.

Sounds like sunscreen and rosin isn't going to get it done Bimbo.

But we will see if they have the balls to really go after stars like Kersahw and Sale and Cole and Bieber and ... because you know they will be gunning for Bauer.

 

[MirORich]

 

[sportscoach]

Sounds like sunscreen and rosin isn't going to get it done Bimbo.

But we will see if they have the balls to really go after stars like Kersahw and Sale and Cole and Bieber and ... because you know they will be gunning for Bauer.

Bauer will either do it on purpose to get MLBs attention, or not since he wants to move past it...

Honestly with pay, is that really a suspension?

 

[jup]

Bauer will either do it on purpose to get MLBs attention, or not since he wants to move past it...

Honestly with pay, is that really a suspension?

Probably can't do anything different without running into a road block called the players union.

So MLB can do this unilaterally without the unions approval, but don't kid yourself that the union is going to be livid. And if they go past the enforcement part, to the disciplinary portion without the union approval - big time grievance filing. So they have to go off past precedent, and the suspension with pay is what it is.

 

[sportscoach]

Probably can't do anything different without running into a road block called the players union.

So MLB can do this unilaterally without the unions approval, but don't kid yourself that the union is going to be livid. And if they go past the enforcement part, to the disciplinary portion without the union approval - big time grievance filing. So they have to go off past precedent, and the suspension with pay is what it is.

So we are gonna be hurting the game more because now it's possible to have a whole bunch of pitchers suspended with pay while teams scramble to get people to cover for them... It's very possible it doesn't end well...

I think they needed to start implementing some things, but with pay isn't going to stop anything since guys still get their money regardless... I think bimbo is right saying certain products aka the sunscreen, rosin etc could be legal, nothing else... Some pitchers aren't going to care if they still get paid if they get caught...