The mental health thread

[2 For The Brew]

Many of the best therapists are cash only and don't accept insurance.

Therapists - it makes a huge difference whether you get a good one or bad one. What often happens is people need therapy, find a therapist, they don't click with that therapist, and instead of finding a therapist that fits they decide therapy can't help. This is a massive problem imho.

 

[KevinLoveFan]

I'll address a couple of things about mental health.

1. Stigma. The most common reason that people don't get the help they need is because of the stigma that surrounds therapy, particularly in men. Even people that are not suicidal or clinically depressed could benefit greatly from therapy. I've been in therapy for the last year or so and it's amazing the weight that I carried around. Small things that you would never register to someone that isn't trained in the field can have a dramatic impact on how we turn out as adults. Everyone, and I really do mean everyone, could benefit from regular therapy.

2. Funding. Therapy requires co-pays, insurance, or completely out-of-pocket cash. The majority of Americans don't have access to insurance or the requisite funds to get help. This system should be overhauled completely.

3. This is directly related to your comments - rationality. Clinical depression, PPD, etc. alter the chemistry of your brain. It's rational to sit back and say, "reach out and get help if you need it." BUT...the chemical makeup of your brain isn't rational. It doesn't follow principles of logic. For many people that commit suicide stemming from depression, it doesn't even register in their brains to get professional help. For many others, see 1 and 2.

4. Shortage of trained therapists. There is an incredible shortage of therapists in the US (and I would guess the world, too). If you took the time to call around, there are many places in the US where you can't even find a therapist that is accepting new patients.

5. Understanding. This kind of goes with number 1, but have you ever tried to use a sick day to refresh your head? Most workplaces wouldn't entertain that as an acceptable reason to call off work. Ever expressed your depressed feelings via social media? Most likely not. People use social media to present a life that is entirely different than the one they actually lead.

I could add additional bullet points, but I think we are going to see a major mental health crisis in the world over the next decade. The COViD isolation did a number on many people. People express that isolation through anger, fear, violence, buying unnecessary things, etc. Basically, every unhealthy way to express emotion. In most of Europe, they have what's called 'burnout.' When you reach the point of burnout, you can take extended paid leave to recharge your physical, emotional, and mental health. That concept would get you laughed out of most offices in the US. There is a lot that we should do regarding mental health in this country, but very likely won't. It's incredible to expect someone in their mid 20's to worry about family, work, relationships, extracurriculars, bills, debt, physical/emotional/mental health without needing help.

Insightful post.

One thing I have noticed in the last few years is people are finally starting to address mental health as a thing en masse. It's a huge change from prior years.

When I was diagnosed with a form of autism in 2014 when I was almost 30, I still had to be very careful about where and how I disclosed that to people. (A few times I misread the situation and disclosed when it would have been best not to; other times, it was helpful to disclose.) To an extent, I still have to be -- but now you see many more people raising awareness about autism, depression, anxiety, and the like. Even on social media, while many still use it to present the best moments in their life, I'm seeing more and more people open up about their mental health struggles as well. Just didn't see that when elder Millennials like myself first started using it in the mid 2000s (to be fair, I think there was less stress then as well -- no pandemic, somewhat less divisive politics, etc).

Sometimes I do wonder if the pendulum has swung a bit too far, though...I'm glad there's more awareness. And I'm glad people are realizing they don't have to pretend life is rosy all the time when it isn't. But I also fear there's not enough emphasis on how to handle mental health challenges. Therapy and psychology are subjective and complicated, and what one person goes through with the same condition might have to be handled in a completely different manner than another person even though they have the same diagnosis. You can't address problems like it's the hard sciences for those reasons.

For someone like myself, for instance, I've simply had to come up with my own coping mechanisms. Rather than constantly seek accommodations, I've worked more on learning how to manage the more negative aspects of autism on my own. Women generally are expected to be more polite, not show anger, and read social cues better than men. That's just the way it is, and I can either demand to be understood all the time, or try to modify my behavior when it isn't acceptable. Compared to the early years after my diagnosis, I now spend less time trying to explain my autism to people, and more time trying to minimize its expression. What has helped, is I know how to do that better than I did when I was younger. I was deemed a little too high functioning to require full therapy, but I did get a diagnosis, and I have a faith, a family support system, and an understanding/management of my condition enough to cope. The road has been long, and there are still bumps, but as KLove said, everyone's going through something. In many ways, I think I'm doing better now than many Americans compared to how things were with me relative to the typical American circa 2015. People have really been hit hard by the pandemic, but unlike most, I'm actually doing better now than I was several years ago. Never thought it would ever come to that point, but it has.

 

[The Oi]

Good posts in here.

Currently doing EMDR. It’s holy shit wow effective for trauma.

 

[Scrote Squad]

Good posts in here.

Currently doing EMDR. It’s holy shit wow effective for trauma.

I had to google what that was. Would love to hear more about its benefits without you divulging too much personal information.

 

[camakazee]

Good posts in here.

Currently doing EMDR. It’s holy shit wow effective for trauma.

I did EMDR for several months following the passing of my mother but never really had this realization. The therapy was helpful overall but the EMDR stuff never really clicked. Would be interested in hearing your takeaways so far and how it has worked for you (assuming you don’t mind sharing).

 

[The Oi]

I had to google what that was. Would love to hear more about its benefits without you divulging too much personal information.

I did EMDR for several months following the passing of my mother but never really had this realization. The therapy was helpful overall but the EMDR stuff never really clicked. Would be interested in hearing your takeaways so far and how it has worked for you (assuming you don’t mind sharing).

Don’t mind sharing. Firstly, maybe it will be helpful to others. Second, I’ve put a lot of hard fucking work into the changes I’ve made and it’s worth discussing. As you mention, I’m going to stay out of details on my childhood below because I don’t like trauma dumping and it’s not helpful for me or anyone else to relive it at this point, but it should give some perspective.

@Scrote Squad EMDR is simply bilateral (left and right brain) stimulation. It helps you to walk through traumatic memories that you are holding in your body and brain. You might watch a dot go back and forth or hold a paddle in your left and right hand. Or you could even tap your left and right shoulder. You will feel this strange blocking sensation in your mind when it is working properly. Tough to explain until you experience it. Interestingly, if you chew gum while you play sports you may notice a “grounding” experience or that it helps you get into the zone more easily. This is bilateral stimulation.

Once the stimulation begins you talk through the painful memory out loud, with brief pauses. You will find that each memory is connected to other memories like a root system. We bury some of these and can’t get to them unless we allow ourselves to work through them. But all of them impact our bodies. Literally. There’s a groundbreaking book about it called The Body Keeps The Score that describes how trauma is stored in the body until we take action to root it out. EMDR does this, as far as I’m aware it does it more efficiently than any other form of therapy.

I have used it for c-ptsd, which is notoriously difficult to treat and requires long term treatment and a lot of motivation from the patient. I do a lot of additional work for it outside of EMDR as well, but the emdr itself helps to work through the actual traumatic memories. I find that because I had so many traumatic memories and such an awful internal narrative, it was really the only option.

My experience has been that I’ve come upon lifechanging epiphanies during sessions several times that completely changed my method of thinking. I have been “flooded” several times when I’ve had the big life changing moments where my perception of the world up to that point was literally flipped upon itself. I have had experiences where the room started spinning and vibrating and I almost had a panic attack on the big moments. Felt like I was in Inception. These were also huge trauma events I was exposing and forcing myself to accept as false narratives, ones that had up until that time completely defined me. In that moment…snipped.

Pardon the simplicity here, but the best way I can define a timeline is something like this for me. Not the same way for everyone.

Session 1: I’m desperate for a solution to all these problems in my life that i dont understand
Session 2: oh shit I remember that happening. I’m a little afraid to talk about it
Session 5: she was doing that shit to me on purpose?! What an awful cunt. At least now I know it wasnt my fault.
Session 10: all of these events that i have processed no longer define me. There are more to go but i am more than the awful things that have happened
Session 15: i am discovering what i am meant for. I am disconnecting from those awful experiences and the people that caused them

That’s where I am now. It’s been a journey and I feel like a new person than the one that started the therapy. Granted, I watch some great content on c-ptsd, meditate, exercise and I have made pretty drastic life changes that have made this all much easier. So it’s not ALL EMDR. But I’d say EMDR is a pretty powerful tool in the toolbox.


@camakazee if you don’t mind me asking, what was the issue you found with it?

 

[camakazee]

Don’t mind sharing. Firstly, maybe it will be helpful to others. Second, I’ve put a lot of hard fucking work into the changes I’ve made and it’s worth discussing. As you mention, I’m going to stay out of details on my childhood below because I don’t like trauma dumping and it’s not helpful for me or anyone else to relive it at this point, but it should give some perspective.

@Scrote Squad EMDR is simply bilateral (left and right brain) stimulation. It helps you to walk through traumatic memories that you are holding in your body and brain. You might watch a dot go back and forth or hold a paddle in your left and right hand. Or you could even tap your left and right shoulder. You will feel this strange blocking sensation in your mind when it is working properly. Tough to explain until you experience it. Interestingly, if you chew gum while you play sports you may notice a “grounding” experience or that it helps you get into the zone more easily. This is bilateral stimulation.

Once the stimulation begins you talk through the painful memory out loud, with brief pauses. You will find that each memory is connected to other memories like a root system. We bury some of these and can’t get to them unless we allow ourselves to work through them. But all of them impact our bodies. Literally. There’s a groundbreaking book about it called The Body Keeps The Score that describes how trauma is stored in the body until we take action to root it out. EMDR does this, as far as I’m aware it does it more efficiently than any other form of therapy.

I have used it for c-ptsd, which is notoriously difficult to treat and requires long term treatment and a lot of motivation from the patient. I do a lot of additional work for it outside of EMDR as well, but the emdr itself helps to work through the actual traumatic memories. I find that because I had so many traumatic memories and such an awful internal narrative, it was really the only option.

My experience has been that I’ve come upon lifechanging epiphanies during sessions several times that completely changed my method of thinking. I have been “flooded” several times when I’ve had the big life changing moments where my perception of the world up to that point was literally flipped upon itself. I have had experiences where the room started spinning and vibrating and I almost had a panic attack on the big moments. Felt like I was in Inception. These were also huge trauma events I was exposing and forcing myself to accept as false narratives, ones that had up until that time completely defined me. In that moment…snipped.

Pardon the simplicity here, but the best way I can define a timeline is something like this for me. Not the same way for everyone.

Session 1: I’m desperate for a solution to all these problems in my life that i dont understand
Session 2: oh shit I remember that happening. I’m a little afraid to talk about it
Session 5: she was doing that shit to me on purpose?! What an awful cunt. At least now I know it wasnt my fault.
Session 10: all of these events that i have processed no longer define me. There are more to go but i am more than the awful things that have happened
Session 15: i am discovering what i am meant for. I am disconnecting from those awful experiences and the people that caused them

That’s where I am now. It’s been a journey and I feel like a new person than the one that started the therapy. Granted, I watch some great content on c-ptsd, meditate, exercise and I have made pretty drastic life changes that have made this all much easier. So it’s not ALL EMDR. But I’d say EMDR is a pretty powerful tool in the toolbox.


@camakazee if you don’t mind me asking, what was the issue you found with it?

Appreciate the insight, thanks for sharing. I guess the biggest issue was I never felt like it was “working” or had the breakthroughs you described. It felt weird and maybe I was overthinking the steps/process. This was also my first time with any form of therapy and I’m pretty bad at expressing myself and processing my emotions. Ultimately I’m not opposed to doing it again in the future, I just didn’t feel like it was accomplishing anything.

 

[The Oi]

Appreciate the insight, thanks for sharing. I guess the biggest issue was I never felt like it was “working” or had the breakthroughs you described. It felt weird and maybe I was overthinking the steps/process. This was also my first time with any form of therapy and I’m pretty bad at expressing myself and processing my emotions. Ultimately I’m not opposed to doing it again in the future, I just didn’t feel like it was accomplishing anything.

Got it.

I’m not one for critiquing another patient’s approach to therapy. Everyone’s experiences and ways of thinking are different. What works for one doesn’t always work for another or sometimes it might just not work at a certain point in time or with a certain therapist. Minds are tough.

I do know it’s important that whomever you’re working with take inventory of all traumatic events you can come up with up front and make you feel very safe in the situation. You must feel stability starting out and you have to start with memories you can experience success with to get the ball rolling.

Start out with layups on level ground instead of halfcourt on a burning island surrounded by sharks.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

This kid is very brave. His message will save lives.

 

[DJTJ]

Just because I’m not sure where else to post this, and because I don’t want to start a thread.

Does anyone have any knowledge about Autism/Asperger’s testing for adults? In recent years, I’ve learned that a lot of… social issues I’ve had my entire life were sort of overlooked as quirky because I could get good grades (because I could remember specific things, not because of work ethic). I’ve been treating anxiety for the better part of five years, with the main goal of subduing the social “quirks” as anxiety tics, but within the last year, have realized that the tics never really went away, I just sort of masked them. I’ve done a few of the spectrum tests that my wife/I have found, and I’m very clearly testing in a level they would likely consider on the spectrum.

The issue is, as an adult, everyone I find seems like they’re just rubber stamping what people are looking for for a huge wad of cash. A lot of resources are very childhood driven, so I’m feeling really defeated that I finally feel okay with trying to see if I am on the spectrum (after years of denying it, despite my wife’s push to see) and can’t seemingly find adequate resources.

 

[KevinLoveFan]

Just because I’m not sure where else to post this, and because I don’t want to start a thread.

Does anyone have any knowledge about Autism/Asperger’s testing for adults? In recent years, I’ve learned that a lot of… social issues I’ve had my entire life were sort of overlooked as quirky because I could get good grades (because I could remember specific things, not because of work ethic). I’ve been treating anxiety for the better part of five years, with the main goal of subduing the social “quirks” as anxiety tics, but within the last year, have realized that the tics never really went away, I just sort of masked them. I’ve done a few of the spectrum tests that my wife/I have found, and I’m very clearly testing in a level they would likely consider on the spectrum.

The issue is, as an adult, everyone I find seems like they’re just rubber stamping what people are looking for for a huge wad of cash. A lot of resources are very childhood driven, so I’m feeling really defeated that I finally feel okay with trying to see if I am on the spectrum (after years of denying it, despite my wife’s push to see) and can’t seemingly find adequate resources.

You sound similar to me. I was clinically diagnosed at almost 30. Among other assessments, I was given a retrograde CARS test, so essentially the childhood autism scale adjusted for adult criteria. I scored in the moderate range, slightly above mild.

I don't know what mental health resources are available in your area, but it's worth looking into psychologists/psychiatrists who specialize in autism and who work with adults. I lived in Joplin, MO at the time I was diagnosed in 2014.

 

[DJTJ]

You sound similar to me. I was clinically diagnosed at almost 30. Among other assessments, I was given a retrograde CARS test, so essentially the childhood autism scale adjusted for adult criteria. I scored in the moderate range, slightly above mild.

I don't know what mental health resources are available in your area, but it's worth looking into psychologists/psychiatrists who specialize in autism and who work with adults. I lived in Joplin, MO at the time I was diagnosed in 2014.

Did you feel as if the person you went to was rubber stamping diagnosis? That’s my biggest mental hurdle at this point.

Thank you so much for responding- it’s really appreciated!

 

[KevinLoveFan]

Did you feel as if the person you went to was rubber stamping diagnosis? That’s my biggest mental hurdle at this point.

Thank you so much for responding- it’s really appreciated!

No. Women are diagnosed at a much lower rate, but I still got the diagnosis, and it was moderate rather than mild, so there was no ambiguity about it. She and I discussed a number of things, like how my banging of the head on the pillow was overlooked in childhood because of good verbal skills, the toe walking I still exhibit as an adult, tendency to take humor very literally...it made sense to me. Aspergers was simply not well understood in children when I grew up in the 80s and 90s, although my sister suspected it at the time. But autism then was largely understood to be something that mentally challenged boys with limited verbal ability had. Things have changed now; they're able to recognize behavior that once was dismissed simply as odd because autism was assumed to be much more extreme than the spectrum it's seen as now.

 

[Kouki]

Sorry to change topics a bit but in the interest of maybe helping people...

I struggle with general and acute anxiety. Tried CBD oil for the first time Sunday, as I had a business trip earlier this week which triggers my acute anxiety (travel anxiety plus presentations/speaking).

I swear this stuff works. Maybe it's placebo but I don't really care. I think it might work better than my prescribed hydroxyzine.

 

[The Oi]

Sorry to change topics a bit but in the interest of maybe helping people...

I struggle with general and acute anxiety. Tried CBD oil for the first time Sunday, as I had a business trip earlier this week which triggers my acute anxiety (travel anxiety plus presentations/speaking).

I swear this stuff works. Maybe it's placebo but I don't really care. I think it might work better than my prescribed hydroxyzine.

It can definitely work.

The cbd tinctures with thc works even moreso, but some companies test for that so it might not be an option.