The Pacers are beatable boys!

[TJ_4_CV31]

You raise a valid point ChicagoCavFan. Sarunas' potential influence on the James renewal has to be considered. And yes, DJ is one of the more likeable guys in the league.

Ultimately, the Cavs probably won't be affected one way or the other on the court. I think this team's success will always depend on how well Lebron, Z, and Gooden are playing. Hughes has to this point been an effective playmaker at the two gaurd.

It's probably a good thing for the rest of the division that Indy and Detroit still largely believe that the division is about them and only them. I'll give Detroit their props. They are a finely tuned machine on both ends of the court. After I see them for the first time this month, I'll create a thread examining their prospects as I see them at that point in time.

I think Indy matches up well with Detroit, but Indy is more beatable for the rest of us in my opinion. Rip, Chauncey, Ben, Sheed, and Tayshaun are pretty reliable. I don't know if I can say the same thing about Jackson, Tinsley, Foster, and Sarunus.

 

[LyXo]

Thats the thing that separates the teams, TJ. Detroit has lots of reliable players, but you can rely on them on defense. Their offense will be suspect on some nights. They've had the luxury of having the hot hand to start. Nobody on their team can be relied on to score 25+ points on any given night.

Indiana, on the other hand, has 2 bonafide all-stars. Jermaine O'neal will post at least 15 points in a game. On other nights he'll put up 30. But the usual JO will give you 20-25.

And now they have Artest. The same scoring creed applies to him, now that his offensive game is becoming more polished.

Then you have the variables. Stephen Jackson scores anywhere between 7 and 30 points. As does Tinsley.

Detroit's starting five do this too. 10-30 points for Hamilton, Billups. Sheed ends up with 8-25, Tayshaun 5-30. These are big, big gaps, and if you notice where the averages are, they usually are on the bottom rung.

Remember, last season Detroit came out firing and tanked it out mid season. I can see that happening when things start to get a little rougher.

But Indy has the consistent star power to lift them up. They've so far had a tough schedule and had a big win of their own against Miami. Wait til Detroit faces some of those teams in the top 10 power rankings. They did it in Phoenix, very impressive. But can they continue to? Will they make mistakes against second-tier teams? We'll see.

 

[PIP]

This is why I never understood where all the Pacer love came from ? TJ, you know for a fact, that I have said since late June early July I didn't like the Pacers for the up coming season...

It's not about scoring with Detroit at all or the amount of points per player break downs, and it never has been... It is all about team defense... Offensively, they are very efficient scorers and take every possession in the regular season just as serious as teams tend to do in the Playoffs..

They play playoff basketball in the season...They don't change up during the playoffs.. You will always hear the phrase "PLAYOFF BASKETBALL IS DIFFERENT" that does not apply to Detroit though...

That is why I said losing Brown would not hurt them in the least... If there is was one team in the league that does not even need a coach ? It's Detroit.. They play (and especially those starting 5) for each other out there..They know where each player likes the ball, they know which plays to run for each other.. That core has been together for 3 season, and 4 of them have been a core group for 4 season...

Joe Dumars didn't have to worry about free agency... Your best teams are the teams that have played and battled together for a couple season..

Their defense is all they need to succeed... Their team defense, and interior defense is second to none...The ability to clean the glass on both ends doesn't hurt either...

Those 5 just click, and Mcdyess and Hunter round off a strong 7... Not the most talented (like the Heat tried to put together and a couple seasons ago the Mavericks put together) but they are the best team...

Personally, I think they are better the San Antonio, and I thought they were better team in that finals last year as well...

Rip Hamilton is a joy to watch, and Billups is Second to LeBron in my book... I've always loved Billups game, even back to the days when he was playing for Boston and Toronto...

Indiana is not a team, they don't gel... The guy that I believe hurts them is S-JAX... He does not mesh well with their core 3 (JO,TINS,RON)..

I just don't like the Pacers... Never understood how they won 60+ a couple seasons ago..

Tinsley makes that team... Not JO or RON..

 

[LyXo]

I just believe that the Pacers will fare better in the regular season. It seems they are better fit to take the grit of the 82 game season than the Pistons are, just my opinion. I don't think I said the Pacers are a better team. Maybe that's what I conveyed, but I'll tell you now it's not what I meant. It's already been shown in a 7 game series who's the better team: flash back to the year when the Pistons won the championship.

But I do still believe that the Pacers have the best chance to win the division.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

I tend to agree with the both of you (LePip/LyXo) although I think the Pistons are the better team. What Indiana has is depth over Detroit and most of the league's teams. What depth does is it allows a team to play through the injuries that typically will cost most teams 3-5 games per year. Indiana's roster is probably 12 deep. I don't know of any other team that can claim that type of depth. This helps to rack up regular season victories and favorable playoff seedings.

However, come playoff time, the only thing that matters is how good and healthy your top 7-8 players are. Detroit is probably unmatched in this area...largely based on the strength and cohesion that they have in the starting 5. This is also where teams like Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Miami come into play. These teams have 7-8 players that can come in and have a serious impact (not Kukoc/Sasha Pavlovic/Scott Pollard type impact). I think this is the area where teams like Philly, Boston, Jersey, and perhaps Washington will falter (Washington could prove me wrong here).

 

[PIP]

Anything over 10 is only good for injury purposes or perhaps making a deal at the deadline or off season...

Teams that are too deep tend to struggle..

Seriously, the Bulls in their Dynasty days never kept a core bench after 8 or 9

BJ Armstrong
Jordan
Pip
Horace
Cartwright

Regular Bench players
Scott Williams
Will Purdue
John Paxson
Stacey King

Some years they had Bobby Hanson or Trent Tucker or Darryl Walker or Cliff Levingston... They switched yearly..

The second three peat was the same...

Harper
Mike
Pip
Rodman
Longley

Regular Bench players
Toni Kukoc
Bill Wennington
Randy Brown
Steve Kerr
Jud Buechler

Some years they had John Salley, Jason Caffey, "Budah" Edwards, Bison Dele, Rusty Larue..

They kept their 8 or 9 core players, and interchanged the end of the bench with garbage players..

Hell, look at the list above, other then TONI K. and to a lesser extent Steve Kerr, other then those two, the rest were all journeyman serviceable scrubs...

Like I said on here a couple months ago, when people talk about deep teams, it's usually fans of teams that must count on that to generate wins...

Good teams roll 8 deep and don't need anything else...Unless you're talkin injury purposes or hacQ -a- shaQ fouls...

The last Lakers 3 peat was 8 deep

Shaq
Insert PF here (AC Green, Horace Grant, )
Fox/Rice
Bryant
Harper until he retired, then Fisher
Horry
Shaw until he retired then George

They rotated Samaki Walker, John Celestand, JR Rider, Mitch Richmond, Travis Knight, John Salley, ect.. THROUGHOUT that 3 peat...

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Mentioning those Bulls runs just brings back bad memories man, bad memories.

Regular season depth (injury/foul protection) can't be understated. Deep teams are fresher and able to rack up regular season wins with the end of favorable playoff positioning. If a team with a solid core of 7-8 players with scrubs behind them remains healthy and are good at staying out of foul trouble, then they can outperform teams that have the so called depth.

The Bulls with Jordan/Pip/Rod/Kukoc were an exception. They were so strong as a starting five or 6 that nothing short of debilitating injuries were going to stop them from winning. Their rotation would always feature either Michael or Scottie on the court at all times when the game was undecided.

I guess we won't know how truly great the Pistons are unless they lose any of their top 5 players to injury. They've been remarkably healthy for the past two seasons.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

As you know, I wanted Sarunas to sign with Cleveland - however, I had one concern.....his ability to mesh with LeBron. We all know he is abrasive and fiery, and his contract would have coorelated with LeBron decided to re-up for a max deal. With the signing of Sarus, we would not have landed Damon Jones, probably not as skilled of a player as Sarus, but definitely a better person/teammate/presence in the locker room - someone that can keep LeBron happy with his personality.

With Jones and Marshall signed for a couple years past when LeBron will make his decision may be an important piece to the process LeBron will go through when he hits the market. Someone like Sarunas in a Cav uni may have led LeBron another way - because of personality, friction, etc.

With Sarunas, we would have still gotten Marshall, Hughes and Z re-signed. It is basically a choice between Jones and Sarunas....

I call it even right now. We'll see how the Lithuanian develops. But there is no doubt he would have gotten more PT in Cleveland, and been a larger part of a winning team.

Very nice post CCF! I was also a BIG Sarunas fan, i even had him for an avatar. It is true, we could have got Damon or Saras. I prefer Damon right now. Damon is TIGHT with LeBron. He was also tight with Shaq and DWade. I believe Damon, Larry and LeBron have a handshake they do. Damon Jones is great for chemistry, which is essential for a winning team. He has a great personality, which cannot be undervalued. Did anyone see his routine on Cavaliers Fast Break talkin about LeBrons dunk over him? Hilarious. I feel now that Damon was meant to be a Cavalier.

 

[cdt]

Speaking of beating the pacers the bobcats did it tonight....pfff by 32!

 

[Rimage]

Speaking of beating the pacers the bobcats did it tonight....pfff by 32!

Are the Clips beatable? That is the real question.