The Rise of Skywalker spoilers thread

[Triplethreat]

I buy it....

I kinda figured they'd go this route as more promotional material was released and it seemed to indicate she wasn't a Skywalker. Rey even thought she might be, according to Kylo "you're not one of us" or some such... "You're nobody.... nothing."

It's a more profound way of democratizing the idea of the Force.

Think about it this way... Rey is the little boy at the end of the film who uses the force to grab the broom... The movie ends on him, because he is Rey, at least, metaphorically speaking. His parents are wholly unimportant, because you don't need to come from great parents to do great things. I think that's what Johnson is trying to change about the Star Wars mythos.

And talking about change... The entire point of the movie is that we should "let the past die," and that the Jedi aren't texts, or even people, but an idea... These ideas are more powerful than ships, or fleets...

For example, the legend of Finn is more important than the real Finn, because it inspired ...the Asian woman, I'm sorry, can't remember her character... it inspired her sister to sacrifice herself to destroy an Imperial, sorry.. First Order Dreadnought. That same legend then inspires the Asian woman to become a hero herself... and also to fall in love over the course of 8 hours (remember this whole movie takes place in one day).

So Rey being a nobody is a plot twist that forces all of us to erase the notion that Anakin or Luke, or Kylo for that matter, are somehow better than anyone else by some kind of Divine Right. They're not. Because a slave girl, who was "nobody." ..from "nowhere" is truly the greatest Jedi of them all, at least.. for the time being.

She's not the daughter of Obi-Wan, and Luke never met her. She's never been trained, and nobody knows who she is.

If you really really wanted to twist shit around, you could argue that, like Anakin, she was born from the Force itself, and perhaps some slave woman birthed her and gave her up... but... As far as I can tell, that's not where this movie is going. Not thematically, and not expositionally, again, as far as I can tell.

....

p.s.
With all that being said, I think it's a horrible direction for a mainline Star Wars film. Because, there's just no way you can turn this around in one movie in a realistic way. The First Order has won, the Empire is back, and the entire galaxy has accepted this. They achieved this end WITHOUT Starkiller base or a Death Star... the fear they've imposed on society is what Palpatine always wanted but could never fully grasp.

It's almost as though someone watched Star Wars and said .. I'm going to turn all of these ideas on their heads, wipe all of this out, and force them to start over (the entire mythos); and I'm going to do this because it'll make for a more profound movie... which, I think instead, Abrams just ends up remaking Return of the Jedi and this trilogy would truly have been meaningless.

Basically the republic is so fucking stupid tactically that they just allowed a small band of the empire that was left to beat them without any kind of tactical advantage.

LMAOOO wow that's awful. Sigh.... they'd have been much better off making the First Order the "rebels" in this trilogy and show them trying to rise up and take over the galaxy once again and failing, than just saying here, you are now in charge again.

It literally makes all of the events of the Original Trilogy POINTLESS.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I liked it, but I am wholly confused by the Rey storyline. Ultimately I think she is not a nobody. I think she is someone, perhaps even the twin sister of Ren.

Snoke is super dead too. Useless character. Poe, idk. They took a risk with this film. People skewered TFA for being too much like ANH. While sort of fair, this is what you get. Totally opposite of what TFA. Again, I liked it, especially Luke and his scenes, but then you get a incomplete story. And kinda boring.

 

[Sebastian]

Hamill is not a fan. Lucas also hates it.

Poor Lucas. Watching Disney butcher his creation. Like seeing your kid turned into a heroin addict.

 

[Triplethreat]

I liked it, but I am wholly confused by the Rey storyline. Ultimately I think she is not a nobody. I think she is someone, perhaps even the twin sister of Ren.

Snoke is super dead too. Useless character. Poe, idk. They took a risk with this film. People skewered TFA for being too much like ANH. While sort of fair, this is what you get. Totally opposite of what TFA. Again, I liked it, especially Luke and his scenes, but then you get a incomplete story. And kinda boring.

I still liked the film. Much better than ANY of the prequels.

I just feel they did a disservice to the entire OT and Star Wars universe as a whole when it comes to some of the giant holes in the story especially with how powerfully Rey and the new characters seem to be without having to go through any adversity or training. That frustrates me.

Ranking?

1. Empire
2. ANH
3. ROTJ

~~~Rogue One~~~

4. Last Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Force Awakens
8. Menace

 

[Sebastian]

Basically the republic is so fucking stupid tactically that they just allowed a small band of the empire that was left to beat them without any kind of tactical advantage.

LMAOOO wow that's awful. Sigh.... they'd have been much better off making the First Order the "rebels" in this trilogy and show them trying to rise up and take over the galaxy once again and failing, than just saying here, you are now in charge again.

It literally makes all of the events of the Original Trilogy POINTLESS.

It is dumb.

Lucas was actually very good at making things seem plausible. The prequels were in exercise in Sidious wargaming a series of events to result in favorable outcomes because it assumes people are rational actors.

JJ Star Wars is basically: Stuff happens because this moment has to occur. And don’t think about why it should make sense. Because it isn’t supposed to as no human would logically make that decision.

 

[Triplethreat]

The one thing I will say about the Luke "lapse of judgement" is that I can justify it.

I hate it but it can be justified.

No Jedi has ever been perfect. Obi Wan allowed Anikan his protege to rise up and eliminate the Jedi, and was negligent.

Yoda allowed Palpatine to execute his plan right beneath his nose as the head of the Jedi council.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I still liked the film. Much better than ANY of the prequels.

I just feel they did a disservice to the entire OT and Star Wars universe as a whole when it comes to some of the giant holes in the story especially with how powerfully Rey and the new characters seem to be without having to go through any adversity or training. That frustrates me.

Ranking?

1. Empire
2. ANH
3. ROTJ

~~~Rogue One~~~

4. Last Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Force Awakens
8. Menace

RotS was significantly better than TLJ

 

[Triplethreat]

RotS was significantly better than TLJ

Couldn't disagree more.

I loved ROTJ. The main complaint with that movie seems to be the ewoks? I've seen much more outlandish shit in this series. It was easy for me to look past.

Everything else about that movie was awesome from Jabba's palace to the Emperor's throne room duel.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Couldn't disagree more.

I loved ROTJ. The main complaint with that movie seems to be the ewoks? I've seen much more outlandish shit in this series. It was easy for me to look past.

Everything else about that movie was awesome from Jabba's palace to the Emperor's throne room duel.

Give me Duel of the Fates and the Senate Room fight all day. I loved that movie

 

[Hurl Bruce]

This is a tough ranking for all of them including Rogue One. This series gets a ton of love and fandom, but in reality the spectacle of the movies are bigger than the quality of the movies. There are some real stinkers in there.

1. ESB V
2. Rogue One
3. ANH IV
4. ROTJ VI
5. ROTS III
6. TLJ VIII
7. TFA VII
8. AOTC II
9. TPM I

 

[Chris]

You know.. I always cringed (and still do) at Jar Jar and the Gungans.. thought it was monumentally stupid. Until I showed my kids The Phantom Menace for the first time in forever.. before, they were probably too young to remember, definitely my youngest.

They loved Jar Jar and the Gungans.. especially my youngest son.

So.. I get what Lucas was thinking.. But he forgot that his primary audience weren't kids anymore, they were 25-50 year old males who won't dig the stupid slapstick bullshit.

Yeah absolutely. Even I didnt mind when I first saw it in 99. I was like nine. But going back is insufferable.

 

[gourimoko]

The more I think about The Last Jedi.. the more I dislike it...

It's .. I dunno, right now, I've got TFA and TLJ as both being pretty fucking terrible..

Guys, I think 10 years from now, we'll look back on this trilogy the same way many look back on the prequels.. It'll be 3 good movies, and 6 ok-to-bad movies and that'll be that.

Thankfully Rogue One was legit good... Here's to hoping the rest will be good as well.

Also, did Rian Johnson do the Lucas screen wipe thing from scene to scene? I can't remember..

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The more I think about The Last Jedi.. the more I dislike it...

It's .. I dunno, right now, I've got TFA and TLJ as both being pretty fucking terrible..

Guys, I think 10 years from now, we'll look back on this trilogy the same way many look back on the prequels.. It'll be 3 good movies, and 6 ok-to-bad movies and that'll be that.

Thankfully Rogue One was legit good... Here's to hoping the rest will be good as well.

Also, did Rian Johnson do the Lucas screen wipe thing from scene to scene? I can't remember..

I tend to agree, these last two movies will not be looked back upon fondly. Still hope for IX but....well, we'll see.

He did do a few, off the top of my head he did one coming out of a hand.

 

[Sebastian]

The there is this theory, that Poe just has too much testosterone to think straight and that is why the Rebel fleet was nuked.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017

This article contains considerable spoilers for Star Wars: The Last Jedi.If you want to go into the movie pure as the driven salt on the mining planet of Crait, you should wait until later to read this. Otherwise, join us for a closer look at how, even though it’s set long ago and in a galaxy far, far away, The Last Jedi dished up a vital 2017 lesson about sexual politics in the workplace.

The Last Jedi opens with a familiar sight. A cocky flyboy—fan favorite Poe Dameron—zipping around a big, evil ship taking out cannons with the help of some Red, Blue, or Gold leaders. Defying a direct order from his boss, General Organa, Dameron leads the rebel air force into victory, yes—but also a lot of fiery casualties. The toll of this mission is driven home by the poignant death of Paige Tico—and while Poe expects to be greeted as a conquering hero, he instead finds his boss enraged. She tells him he needs to understand the chain of command and what it takes to lead. “I need you to learn that,” Leia lectures him. He gets a slap and a demotion for his trouble. It’s only the first of many such lessons in a movie that takes time away from the light and dark battles of Rey and Kylo to deliver a stinging referendum on gendered office politics.

The Poe-Leia relationship may be somewhat fraught, but The Last Jedi writer-director Rian Johnson really doubles down on this theme when Leia goes into a coma and is replaced by Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern). Poe, clearly hoping to be tapped to stand in for Leia, immediately criticizes his new superior. “That’s Admiral Holdo?” he asks a fellow resistance fighter while taking in his new boss’s gown, purple hair, and jewelry. “Not what I was expecting,” he almost sneers.

That Holdo is kind yet dismissive of Poe only enrages him further. She urges him, for the safety of all concerned, to “stick to your post and follow my orders.” He doesn’t; as a result, many rebels die. Speaking about her character’s stylish-yet-firm leadership, Dern told Vanity Fair: “[Rian is] saying something that’s been a true challenge in feminism. Are we going to lead and be who we are as women in our femininity? Or are we going to dress up in a boy’s clothes to do the boy’s job? I think we’re waking up to what we want feminism to look like.”

One might argue that if Holdo had filled in Poe on her plan—to evade the First Order fleet long enough to get within range of an old base on Crait—Poe would have listened and fallen in line. But to borrow a phrase from Poe himself, this mission was a “need-to-know.” And as soon as a frustrated Holdo and Leia let Poe in on the plan, he blabs about it over the comms to Finn loud enough that Benicio del Toro’s D.J. can hear—and, later, sell them out. If Poe had just listened to Leia and Holdo from the start, the rebel fleet wouldn’t have been quite so decimated by the end of the film. Poe does clearly learn his lesson by the final frames of The Last Jedi—and only then do his admiration for Holdo, his respect for Leia, and his realization of just how much he doesn’t know position him to finally become the leader these powerful women hoped he’d be.

It’s clever for Johnson to have put this story on the very likable Poe. (Both Leia and Holdo are careful to reassure audiences that they, too, like the guy.) We expect dismissive sexism from the First Order (how many times do they refer to Rey as “The Girl?”), but to see it from a friendly face is even more instructive. Any female boss in 2017 or American still nursing the hangover of the 2016 presidential election can tell you that even nice guys often have trouble taking orders from women.

This message—women being largely right, and men being mostly wrong—extends to most but not all aspects of The Last Jedi. Rose Tico was certainly right to insist that Finn stay and fight, and right again to save him when attempts to needlessly sacrifice himself. Rey and Leia were right that Luke should join the resistance. But Luke still has some things to teach his young student. When they fight on the rainy cliffs of Ahch-To over her desperate hope that she can save Ben Solo, Luke is correct in telling Rey that “this is not going to go the way you think.” And in the end, no matter how Poe and Finn may have stumbled—or Holdo, Leia, Rose, and Rey may have triumphed—it’s still Luke Skywalker who gets the film’s big damn hero moment.

But by in large, The Last Jedi’s examination of gender politics does fit into this trilogy’s message that the true heirs to the power in this universe are not white men like Hux and Kylo but women and people of color. Though The Last Jedi began filming in early 2016—in other words, long before a referendum on Donald Trumpvs. Hillary Clinton informed every aspect of American storytelling—it’s impossible to ignore the parallels on screen here.

The film’s progressive ideology is already ticking off some calcified corners of the fandom—the kind of fans who dismissed Ridley’s heroic Rey as a too-powerful “Mary Sue” after the last film. But just because some Star Wars lovers are out of reach for the message this movie delivers, there is still hope for a new generation. Just like that kid at the end of The Last Jedi, holding his broom aloft and wearing the resistance jewelry left behind by Rose, an entire generation of young Star Warswatchers will remember the brave, smart, capable women of The Last Jedi—and the consequences of doubting their leadership.

Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

 

[gourimoko]

I do find it interesting that George Lucas apparently loved Gareth Edwards vision for Rogue One, claiming he loved it and he "could now die happy." Also funny that Disney apparently fired Edwards in post-production and reshot much of the film.

Nonetheless, it's interesting to see the Marvel-ization of Star Wars.