The Sexland Experiment

[Cavatt]

I still think we take Garland over Hunter if say, Culver went 4th. I just got such strong Garland stuff all week before the draft as soon as that workout happened it seemed like he was going to be the guy.

I meant Hunter would have been the guy to add "length and defense" around Sexton like the article suggested should have been done.

It's a little hard for me to believe that Beilein would be as into Hunter as he was into Garland. Even Koby seems to be into the sexy choice over the sensible one.

I also think choosing Garland over Culver must have meant they really just thought Garland was the much better player. They are not looking for defense yet, they are looking for a transcendent scoring talent.

 

[cavsfever]

Very good article on these two guys.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/27/20833956/the-rookie-curve-darius-garland-cleveland-cavaliers-collin-sexton




I agree with him for the most part. I think once we shed our contracts after this upcoming year, we need to start building what can amount to a cohesive roster. Our offseason next year will be telling as far as how capable/competent this FO is.

I came here to post that article. One thing that stunned me from the article is that last year the Cavs were, statistically speaking, the worst defensive team in NBA history. I was not aware of that. Add another undersized minus backcourt defender to that -- wow.

I don't think it was crazy to draft Garland but to me it's an acknowledgement that we are years away from thinking about contending. We're still basically in the phase of giving people tryouts to see if we can find a star. You need a star or two to get anywhere and we haven't found them yet. Mismatched players will get traded once they come up with a direction for building the team.

For now, just roll Windler+Sexland out there and rain down the threes!

 

[mhi]

I came here to post that article. One thing that stunned me from the article is that last year the Cavs were, statistically speaking, the worst defensive team in NBA history. I was not aware of that. Add another undersized minus backcourt defender to that -- wow.

Two reasons I think for this:

1) Griffin had spent the previous two years trying to compete with GS's offense, which meant he filled the roster with offensive minded players at the expense of a balanced roster. You could argue wether or not this was the right strategy but that's what we went for. We still had a bunch of these players last year.

2) The current era's offense are the best ever. The article also mentioned that the 2nd-worst defense ever was the 2017 Suns which further supports this. It's very surprising that it took the league this long after the introduction of the 3pt shot to realize that it was basically a fast lane. We've hit a point where the '3pt optimization' strategy and the talent needed to execute it are well developed and in-sync.

 

[Green Lantern]

Hard for me to say how this will turn out since I really haven't seen Garland at all.
Defensively I like one guard to have size and be able to cover his man without a ton of help ..
This is going to be interesting since both are so young and will be targeted on the other side of the ball.

 

[Douglar]

I came here to post that article. One thing that stunned me from the article is that last year the Cavs were, statistically speaking, the worst defensive team in NBA history. I was not aware of that. Add another undersized minus backcourt defender to that -- wow.

Defense do not win high draft picks---


To quote that article--

They selected the best available player without worrying about fit because they had already fallen out of love with their other young building block. The bigger concern for the Cavs is that they made the same mistake with Garland that they did with Sexton. A 6-foot-2 guard can take you only so far if he’s not a good passer. ​

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Hard for me to say how this will turn out since I really haven't seen Garland at all.
Defensively I like one guard to have size and be able to cover his man without a ton of help ..
This is going to be interesting since both are so young and will be targeted on the other side of the ball.

Historically, at least in recent history, the best PGs have not been prolific defensively: Steph, Lillard, Kyrie, IT (lol).

 

[Green Lantern]

Historically, at least in recent history, the best PGs have not been prolific defensively: Steph, Lillard, Kyrie, IT (lol).

No they have not, but in some cases the surrounding parts have been better defensive units.
That won't be the case with this Cavs' team yet.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

No they have not, but in some cases the surrounding parts have been better defensive units.
That won't be the case with this Cavs' team yet.

Ofcourse, but locking down the PG position, getting such an advanced PG with such a beautiful stroke on a rookie contract is a big win. His shot, bh and quick first step alone are major markers for a quality PG, even if he fails in other areas. Although, players with such smooth touch and advanced ball handling usually will excel in other areas as well, it's just a matter of time before they master it. Smooth, natural feel for the game is a gift - in that regard he reminds me of Curry.

Hopefully we will make the right choices as far as picking the right players to surround him with and not overpaying marginal players. We need to get more picks so the margin for error is bigger, and on paper we are positioned perfectly for that, it lies on Koby to do a good job.

 

[Derek]

Two reasons I think for this:

1) Griffin had spent the previous two years trying to compete with GS's offense, which meant he filled the roster with offensive minded players at the expense of a balanced roster. You could argue wether or not this was the right strategy but that's what we went for. We still had a bunch of these players last year.

2) The current era's offense are the best ever. The article also mentioned that the 2nd-worst defense ever was the 2017 Suns which further supports this. It's very surprising that it took the league this long after the introduction of the 3pt shot to realize that it was basically a fast lane. We've hit a point where the '3pt optimization' strategy and the talent needed to execute it are well developed and in-sync.

We really didn't though.

Griffin was done after the 2017 Finals and the only players who remained from that team were Love, Tristan, and Korver. Those 3 guys COMBINED to play 71 games for us last year.

 

[Cavatt]

Just thought about George Hill and how he is known as a good or even great defender. On our team in 2018 he had a -2.6 DPM which is below replacement level defense. In Milwaukee, the same year +.4 which is above average.

What more do you need to know? The bad defense was the worst in the league by 2 points per 100 possession, and George Hill was 3 points per 100 possessions worse on the Cavs than on the Bucks. That's coaching/scheme. I don't think the new staff is going to go from the worst to the best defense, but it will be better.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Cavs having the worst all-time defense was not surprising but 5 others teams from the 2018-19 season rounded out the worst 20 defensive teams in NBA history. Tanking contributes heavily along with the pace of play. No doubt we were awful from a personnel standpoint but marginal improvement would go a long ways with a new coaching staff.

The 2nd worst team of all-time? 2018-19 Phoenix Suns. I'm wondering if there is a direct correlated stats between raw defensive rebounding numbers and defensive efficiency. The Cavs and Suns happen to be the two worst defensive rebounding teams from last season as well, so giving up 2nd chances (lack of size and/or toughness) didn't help either. Cavs were actually 17th in defensive rebounding % while the Suns finished last in that category as well.

 

[J_J]

Cedi Osman’s defense even regressed last year - it really shows the coaching scheme was terrible and did not help the players.

I am more looking forward to Beilein and Bickerstaff helping their defense system. Bickerstaff really emphasizes defense and believes stops can create easy offense and his concept is one of the goals. He adjusts depending on the opponent. For teams such as who play a lot of isolation the strategy is different- believes in being physical and using intelligence at being in the right spots. Defensive rebounding is one aspect he focuses to limit the opponent.

I am honestly not too worried- last year is last year. It is about this year and going forward.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Just thought about George Hill and how he is known as a good or even great defender. On our team in 2018 he had a -2.6 DPM which is below replacement level defense. In Milwaukee, the same year +.4 which is above average.

What more do you need to know? The bad defense was the worst in the league by 2 points per 100 possession, and George Hill was 3 points per 100 possessions worse on the Cavs than on the Bucks. That's coaching/scheme. I don't think the new staff is going to go from the worst to the best defense, but it will be better.

I agree that bad coaching can make even decent defenders look bad. The problem is that neither Sexton nor Garland projected as decent defenders even before Longobardi.

So it's not that he took good or even average defenders, and made them look bad. It's that he took shitty defenders and made them look historically bad.

 

[Nathan S]

Just to illustrate how much of an outlier the Cavs were last season:

 

[Cavatt]

I agree that bad coaching can make even decent defenders look bad. The problem is that neither Sexton nor Garland projected as decent defenders even before Longobardi.

So it's not that he took good or even average defenders, and made them look bad. It's that he took shitty defenders and made them look historically bad.

But he did make good defenders look bad. Both Nance and George Hill were better before. And Hill's rating also improved after.

I agree we didn't have any DPOY candidates, but the few defensive players we did have, also had terrible defensive numbers which immediately changed on different teams.