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2015 Cleveland Browns Regular Season Thread

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I don't give a shit if they drafted four Manziel's in the last two years, you make the move knowing you have to do something with that value. Because the value Thomas will provide is not likely to give you more than what those two picks COULD.

I'd normally agree but if we take a QB in the Top 5-10 after this year and Thomas remains good enough to keep him upright while he develops, that's plenty of value. There are a boatload of guys on this godawful roster I'd have dealt for picks. Thomas isn't one of them. Even if he declines a bit, his quality is not easily replaced.
 
What if I told you there was a coach out there with a
I'd normally agree but if we take a QB in the Top 5-10 after this year and Thomas remains good enough to keep him upright while he develops, that's plenty of value. There are a boatload of guys on this godawful roster I'd have dealt for picks. Thomas isn't one of them. Even if he declines a bit, his quality is not easily replaced.

I was going to pop in to say this exact thing. The one thing this team needs in place before drafting a franchise QB is a stable line to keep him upright while he learns the ropes. Trading away Thomas and drafting a QB that same year could bring back memories of Tim Couch's development.
 
For everyone saying "we suck at drafting, so we should have less picks, not more." How the hell do you plan to rebuild the team? I can't think of one team who's had NFL success without drafting a core of players. The Redskins (before RGIII), Bills, Dolphins,and Texans have all tried building primarily through trades and free agency. It does not work in the NFL.

I guess I'm confused about the logical conclusion. If it is clear that you have to build through the draft, then is the theory "we're going to suck either way so let's suck with Joe Thomas"? If that's the case then as a fan base we have become complacent and the team will never be successful. Also, if the Browns have a 10% rate of hitting on draft picks, wouldn't you want more picks to increase the odds of a hit, not less?
 
10% is ridiculous, even for the Browns. But if I really did believe that we had only a 10% chance of hitting on a pick, I advise to trade it, every year, for the best offer and build a team that way. That said, you don't keep Thomas around because you want to compete for a championship next year, you keep Thomas around because you want to develop your future QB. It's all about eliminating variables. Look at what a shitty O-Line is doing to Luck's development right now. He was as sure-fired a prospect as you could get over the past decade. He'll still likely figure it out, but you don't want to see a potential HOF player regress in year 4 due to having a completely inept OLine.

As bad as this team looks, it isn't all terrible. The offensive line is a strength. Rather than give that up simply to increase the number of draft picks available likely does more harm than good long term.
 
If people have given up on the idea of drafting players, then why watch the Browns. They will be forever terrible if you've given up on the draft.

There's no other way to become a good team bypassing the draft.

It's simple. Or should be. Stop hiring stupid people. Get someone in here that has an idea of what he's doing. Then again, someone like that is probably too smart to take this job.
 
Pluto's new article, which I think offers a pretty fair assessment of the failures of this team and the fact that blame lies with both men leading the charge.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/11/cleveland_browns_scribbles_abo_10.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Scribbles in my Browns notebook after listening to the press conferences of General Manager Ray Farmer and Coach Mike Pettine:

1. Farmer didn't hire Pettine. Farmer didn't even interview Pettine before he was named coach of the team. It was former Browns CEO Joe Banner who hired Pettine.

2. Farmer also was hired by Banner. He was named the Browns assistant general manager in 2013. He was away doing a lot of college scouting at places such as the Senior Bowl when Pettine and others were being interviewed for the Browns coaching position.

3. So Pettine and Farmer really didn't know each other when they were thrown together on February 11, 2014. That's when Owner Jimmy Haslam fired Banner and General Manager Mike Lombardi. He then promoted Farmer to general manager. No one would suggest that was the ideal way for the owner to handle this situation. Haslam just fired Banner, who just hired Pettine.

4. Pettine was hired on January 23, 2014. So nearly three weeks passed before Haslam decided to shake up his front office with the firing and the promotion of Farmer. The point? Neither Farmer nor Pettine saw the shake-up coming.

5. Banner was CEO, all major business and football decisions ran through him. Banner received input from people on his staff in both areas. But he had the final say, and was accountable to Haslam.

6. With Banner gone, Haslam set up a new business model. Team president Alec Scheiner was put in charge of the business side. Farmer was placed in charge of player acquisition. He made trades, ran the draft and picked the 53-man roster. Pettine was put in charge of coaching, picking the 46 players to dress on game day and making all coaching decisions.

7. It is inaccurate to say that Farmer doesn't confer with Pettine. Consider the first pick they made together -- Justin Gilbert. Pettine absolutely loves defensive backs. He has at least 10 on his roster. That goes back to his days in Buffalo and with the Jets. So it's unfair to say that picking Gilbert at No. 8 in 2014 was solely a Farmer decision. Both men wanted the cornerback from Oklahoma State.

8. I'll never know exactly how the decision to draft Johnny Manziel was made. Farmer has said it was his call. I have no clue what Pettine thought about it. Obviously, Haslam was intrigued by Manziel. But the Gilbert pick was a pure football decision. Gilbert's failure to become even a trusted reserve defensive back should be blamed on both men.

9. As Tuesday's trading deadline came to an end, it was odd when Pettine said he "wasn't involved" in trade talks that he was "in game-planning meetings." If Pettine means he was not on the phone with Denver when Joe Thomas was being discussed, that makes sense. There should only be one voice negotiating with the other team.

10. Pettine later was asked if Farmer "operated independently with trades," and the coach replied, "No, not at all." Pettine also said "Yeah," when asked if he would be "consulted before a trade." I sincerely doubt that Pettine had no idea about trade talks, as some media people have speculated. He may not have liked the idea of dealing Thomas, but he was aware of the general talks.

11. When a team is 2-6 and has lost 11-of-13 dating back to last season, there will be tension. When two men were tossed together in a football version of a shotgun marriage (as is the case of Pettine and Farmer), there will be strain when a team is losing. That happens even in the classic GM/Coach relationships when things are going reasonably well.

12. This is Cleveland. The team is failing on two fronts. Farmer's first-round picks have not delivered talent immediately ready to play. Pettine's defense has been a major failure. It is much worse this season than a year ago, no matter what stats you use. Furthermore, more players (Tramon Williams, Danny Shelton, Nate Orchard) were added to the defense. Fans and media like to point fingers of blame at one party, but both have fallen way short of what should have been expected this season.

13. You can blame Farmer for signing receiver Dwayne Bowe (guaranteed $9 million). You can blame Pettine for taking Paul Kruger who had 11 sacks last season and moving him around to the point where the linebacker has 0.5 sacks this season. Kruger looks confused. Bowe looks slow and out-of-shape. If you look down the roster, you can find fault that points back to each man, Farmer and Pettine.

14. The team's top picks have not performed well. Since 2009, the first-rounders with the team are Alex Mack, Joe Haden, Barkevious Mingo, Danny Shelton, Cameron Erving, Manziel and Gilbert. Trent Richardson and Phil Taylor are out of the NFL. Brandon Weeden is a backup in Dallas.

15. The above paragraph is a list of 10 first-round picks since 2009. They were drafted by four different front offices. The only ones starting for the Browns are Mack, Shelton and Haden. That's why Browns fans are so incensed and impatient when first-round picks flounder. They have seen so many recent disasters.

16. In case you missed a big point, there have been FOUR different front offices running the last EIGHT drafts.

17. Farmer drew the venom of some fans and media when he said: "How do we fix it? We continue to do exactly what we have done..."

18. That's all some people heard. It sounded like he meant to continue doing the same things wrong, over and over. I doubt that was his meaning.

19. Farmer continued that sentence by saying, "work hard, put in the effort, the time and the energy ... unearth better players ... unearth better opportunities for our guys and try to grow it as we see it."

20. I do wish Farmer and/or Pettine had said: "We have the bye week coming up. We plan to look at every weak area, on the field and off. Where we need to make changes, we will make changes. We know there are problems. We know we've not gotten everything right."

21. Neither man said anything close to that. The failure to admit the obvious hurts them in the eyes of the public. The record is 2-6. The top draft picks have not been productive. The defense has been one of the worst in the NFL. Changes in approach are needed.


22. About the trade rumors, Pettine said: "All that does is add to the adversity that you have to deal with as a team ... the equivalent of throwing a grenade into the locker room."

23. The "equivalent of a grenade," really? He later went on to talk about it being "part of the business," but it came across like an excuse. Well, the news came out before the game. The Browns were so decimated by it, they took a 20-7 lead against the Cardinals. They played one of their best first halves of the season. They were outscored 24-0 in the second half. I don't think the rumors had anything to do with the collapse since the Browns looked so sharp in the first half. Pettine has to know that.


24. I'm glad the Browns didn't trade Joe Thomas. Denver is desperate for a left tackle. The Broncos reportedly have tried to trade for him before. Does anyone think getting a couple of low first round picks in 2016 and perhaps 2017 would produce another Thomas, who is under a reasonable contract through 2018?

25. Listening to Farmer and Pettine, there is a sense that both men are stunned that the record is 2-6 at the mid-point of the season. I'm not surprised the coach and general manager are saying the team is "close" to turning the season around. They say that for the sake of their players. They don't want the players to think the season is a hopeless case.

26. But the second-half of the season does look grim. And the fans feel a sense of gloom. The Browns have been outscored, 58-26, in the last two games. That's the recent reality. As many fans said, "We have seen this movie before." They were talking about Farmer's movie references. Every new front office and coaching staff inherits the weight of the decades of losing that happened before they arrive. It has been like that for years.

27. Neither man had anything close to a good day when facing the media (and fans) on Tuesday. Pettine sounded exhausted. Farmer was on edge. No one in Browns town was happy about anything.

28. Both men know they are fighting for their jobs. They know the history of firings and impatience. They know so much of what they have planned has not worked out. They also should know that it doesn't take much success for the fans and media to embrace them. Just remember a year ago when the Browns beat Cincinnati and moved their record to 6-3. Everyone loved everything about the team. But it's been so hard for the fans lately, losing 11-of-13 dating back to last season.

29. The national media covering the NFL desperately wants the league to act like baseball and basketball near the trading deadlines, when lots of deals are made. The NFL never does make many deals during the season.

30. Rob Chudzinski has just taken over as offensive coordinator for the Colts. He was the Browns head coach in 2013. Pat Shurmur (2011-12) is offensive coordinator in Philadelphia. Eric Mangini (2009-10), is defensive coordinator in San Francisco. Romeo Crennel (2005-08) is defensive coordinator in Houston. So the last four Browns head coaches are all coordinators with different teams.
 
View: https://twitter.com/PFF/status/661960129592492032


I mean, I like PFF but c'mon. 2nd?
2. Cleveland Browns (3rd)
Pass blocking rank: 1st

Run blocking rank: 5th

Penalties rank: 25th

Stud: Joe Thomas (93.8), despite trade rumors, remains the best player the Browns have on the roster.

Dud: We’re drawing a blank here. Every starter on the line has a positive grade. That’s impressive.

Summary: The scary thing is, this line could get better. Alex Mack (77.9) isn’t back to his pre-injury levels, and as good as Joel Bitonio (83.3) has been, he’s not reached his rookie-year efforts yet. Even despite that, this is a line that does its best to overcome the limitations of the Browns’ skill players.

Real stats that matter...
The Browns are 31st out of 32 teams in rushing yards per attempt
The Browns have given up the 5th most sacks in the NFL

Although the advanced metrics may somehow look good, the 2 main functions of the offensive line; run blocking and pass blocking the Browns are in the bottom 5.
 
Our line has not been good at all this year. I don't need stats to tell me. The good old eye test still works.
 
Rob Chudzinski has just taken over as offensive coordinator for the Colts. He was the Browns head coach in 2013. Pat Shurmur (2011-12) is offensive coordinator in Philadelphia. Eric Mangini (2009-10), is defensive coordinator in San Francisco. Romeo Crennel (2005-08) is defensive coordinator in Houston. So the last four Browns head coaches are allcoordinators with different teams.

Okay, but if I were to list the top 5 disappointing offenses of the season so far, the Colts and Eagles would both make the list. They have the talent to be top 5, and they have been a let down. If I were to make a list of the 5 most regressive defenses from last year to this year, San Francisco and Houston would make the list. I believe the Niners had a catastrophic loss of talent, but they join Houston and Cleveland in the cellar of defensive statistics. This is the difference between just having a job and excelling.
 

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