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2019 Cavs

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red. said:
Once I saw his name, I just had to come here and post.

He’s not with the Cavs anymore?
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Did you watch 10+ minutes of that game? And my next question is why? Haha no one I’m interested in watching I guess.
 
FrontPageNews said:
Waste of roster spots.
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Eh...Luke Babbitt wouldn't be terrible. He's a guy who plays like 15 minutes a game, shoots forty percent from three, and doesn't make his team worse while he's on the court. Seems like a pretty ideal role-player to me.
 
No one's looking at Channing Frye and thinking "I'd like another one of those, but smaller, whiter, less funny, and worse at basketball." But beggars can't be choosers, and having three D-Leaguers round out the bench isn't accomplishing anything. If Babbitt can be a positive locker room guy, and at least good enough on the court that he won't stunt the development of our young players, then I don't have a problem with signing him.
 
Nathan S said:
No one's looking at Channing Frye and thinking "I'd like another one of those, but smaller, whiter, less funny, and worse at basketball." But beggars can't be choosers, and having three D-Leaguers round out the bench isn't accomplishing anything. If Babbitt can be a positive locker room guy, and at least good enough on the court that he won't stunt the development of our young players, then I don't have a problem with signing him.
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He's mostly been about break-even from an advanced stats standpoint, which is why it doesn't really bother me. He doesn't make his team better, but he also doesn't make it worse, which is about the most you can expect from a role-player who plays ten minutes a game.
 
Jack Brickman said:
He's mostly been about break-even from an advanced stats standpoint, which is why it doesn't really bother me. He doesn't make his team better, but he also doesn't make it worse, which is about the most you can expect from a role-player who plays ten minutes a game.
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Yup, this is a sport where being tall, alive, and an accurate outside shooter will do that for you. Guys like that are particularly useful, actually, because they'll add a little bit of value on offense without taking the ball out of Sexton/Cedi/Zizic's hands.

Lineups like Sexton-Hill-Cedi-Frye-Zizic (or replace Frye with Babbitt) should be fun to watch but not quite good enough to win most games.
 
Nathan S said:
Yup, this is a sport where being tall, alive, and an accurate outside shooter will do that for you. Guys like that are particularly useful, actually, because they'll add a little bit of value on offense without taking the ball out of Sexton/Cedi/Zizic's hands.

Lineups like Sexton-Hill-Cedi-Frye-Zizic (or replace Frye with Babbitt) should be fun to watch but not quite good enough to win most games.
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Yeah, I feel like surrounding Sexton and Cedi with as many shooters as possible does both of them a ton of benefit. Opens up the driving lanes and also allows for constant drive and kicks when those lanes collapse. Cedi seems like a very good passer and Sexton is a lot better at passing than I think most of us were hoping for in Summer League, so giving them guys to pass to who can knock down jumpers seems to be a safe bet to create a decent offense.
 
Disclaimer: Long post ahead

I've been thinking all summer about how the team will perform now that LeBron's gone... but I'm taking a different perspective and use my past memories of the LeBron-less Cavs (especially 2000-2003).

2000-2003 were ugly years and not a good example of how to rebuild a team after being a fringe-playoff team for several years in the late 90s. But I also believe the environment wasn't any better.
  • The owner (Gorgon Gund) was getting older and wasn't as hungry for a contender as a decade prior.
  • We also had a lousy GM (Jim Paxson) who was given an outrageous extension after the lockout in 1999.
  • Randy Wittman and John Lucas were pretty below-average coaches.
  • Most of our draft picks were in the mid-lottery range (8-10). I think we only hit well on the first draft after the lockout (Andre Miller). The others sucked (trade for Chris Mihm, DeSagana Diop, etc).
  • We had a decent starting quality center who couldn't stay healthy (Zydrunas Ilgauskas).
  • Finally, there were a lot of journey-men who couldn't find a permanent home in the NBA (Lamond Murray, Wesley Person, Brevin Knight, Derek Anderson, to name a few).
When Andre Miller became a better player (after his rookie year), we were a borderline 30-win team. And when Zydrunas was fully healthy to start the 2000-01 year (for the first 24 games), we were a fringe playoff team (15-9).

But once we moved Andre, the team fell off the map despite Z being fully healthy and a fringe all-star. It wasn't enough because it was a selfish team with some lousy personalities and a lack of drive to improve. To many of these players, stats were more important than wins.
  • Ricky Davis once attempted a rebound at his own rim for a triple-double feat.
  • Dajuan Wagner was unable to score driving left and got seriously injured later in the season that would ruin his career.
  • Darius Miles had athletic ability but no feel for the game.
  • The proof that these guys weren't fit to play postseason games was when they were traded for less talented guys who valued basketball (Tony Battie and Eric Williams). The Cavs' 2004 record also improved enough to reach 35 wins (and the 9th seed).
Based on these years of Cavs basketball, I have a theory on normally competing in the NBA:
  1. A good point guard will pull a team out of the trash of the league (better than the 5 worst teams in the league).
  2. But only when playing besides (minimum) 1 decent big man will that team bring out its full potential (whether that's winning 40+ games or 50, etc).
Even before I watched basketball, Mark Price and Terrell Brandon got the Cavs to the playoffs even when lacking healthy all-star big men (1990, 1994, 1995, and 1996). But Brad Daugherty and Larry Nance (who played the full season) couldn't get them anywhere without their all-star point guard (1991).

We could be better than those early 2000s Cavs, but it will also depend on the development of our young prospects (Sexton, Osman, Zizic), Koby Altman's future transactions, and Lue's ability to coach. Clearly there's more promise compared to before?
 
During LeBron's second stint, the team/organization (heck Griffin spelled out) was so invested in LeBron's legacy that we punted on the regular season and "prepared" for the playoffs often winning with shear talent when we got there. We didn't build the cohesion and chemistry needed to become a team and even got a championship out of it.

I'm hoping that mindset ends and the organization starts to build a culture of accountability moving forward. No more excuses for players/coaches not carrying their weight. Reason why I brought this up was how embarrassing it was for Riley/Heat FO to admit how out of shape Wade was after he was traded.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-notebook-fri-s20180223-story.html

Both Wade and Heat President Pat Riley acknowledged upon Wade's addition two weeks ago that the 36-year-old guard would need to take another step with his conditioning, after spending last season with the Chicago Bulls and the start of this season with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

"It's been a very different training regimen," Wade said of his season and a half away, after spending his first 13 NBA seasons with the Heat. "For me, it's been like training camp all over again. I’m probably as sore as I’ve been all year.

"First of all, the style of play is different. I'm coming from a different system to a system that is way different. So it's more body movement for each player on the team, which is a little different than where I come from with my role."

This could be an unfair assessment because it's anecdotal in nature and could be a reflection of Wade and how seriously he took his time here but I remember being bothered by this. However the playing style contributed to guys not getting into playing shape as Wade also pointed out. Why bother worrying about being in peak condition when we won't get into our offense until 8 seconds left in the shot clock.

In Lue's defense, I think he did want to pick up the pace but LeBron wasn't interested. Lue will certainly have an imprint on how we'll play this season and if it's a fast paced team predicated on ball movement then guys will have to be in peak condition if they want minutes. Based on conversation in SL, Sexton and Cedi have both mentioned playing faster as well and I don't think we have to worry about effort or conditioning with these two.
 
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rabman_gold said:
Disclaimer: Long post ahead

I've been thinking all summer about how the team will perform now that LeBron's gone... but I'm taking a different perspective and use my past memories of the LeBron-less Cavs (especially 2000-2003).

2000-2003 were ugly years and not a good example of how to rebuild a team after being a fringe-playoff team for several years in the late 90s. But I also believe the environment wasn't any better.
  • The owner (Gorgon Gund) was getting older and wasn't as hungry for a contender as a decade prior.
  • We also had a lousy GM (Jim Paxson) who was given an outrageous extension after the lockout in 1999.
  • Randy Wittman and John Lucas were pretty below-average coaches.
  • Most of our draft picks were in the mid-lottery range (8-10). I think we only hit well on the first draft after the lockout (Andre Miller). The others sucked (trade for Chris Mihm, DeSagana Diop, etc).
  • We had a decent starting quality center who couldn't stay healthy (Zydrunas Ilgauskas).
  • Finally, there were a lot of journey-men who couldn't find a permanent home in the NBA (Lamond Murray, Wesley Person, Brevin Knight, Derek Anderson, to name a few).
When Andre Miller became a better player (after his rookie year), we were a borderline 30-win team. And when Zydrunas was fully healthy to start the 2000-01 year (for the first 24 games), we were a fringe playoff team (15-9).

But once we moved Andre, the team fell off the map despite Z being fully healthy and a fringe all-star. It wasn't enough because it was a selfish team with some lousy personalities and a lack of drive to improve. To many of these players, stats were more important than wins.
  • Ricky Davis once attempted a rebound at his own rim for a triple-double feat.
  • Dajuan Wagner was unable to score driving left and got seriously injured later in the season that would ruin his career.
  • Darius Miles had athletic ability but no feel for the game.
  • The proof that these guys weren't fit to play postseason games was when they were traded for less talented guys who valued basketball (Tony Battie and Eric Williams). The Cavs' 2004 record also improved enough to reach 35 wins (and the 9th seed).
Based on these years of Cavs basketball, I have a theory on normally competing in the NBA:
  1. A good point guard will pull a team out of the trash of the league (better than the 5 worst teams in the league).
  2. But only when playing besides (minimum) 1 decent big man will that team bring out its full potential (whether that's winning 40+ games or 50, etc).
Even before I watched basketball, Mark Price and Terrell Brandon got the Cavs to the playoffs even when lacking healthy all-star big men (1990, 1994, 1995, and 1996). But Brad Daugherty and Larry Nance (who played the full season) couldn't get them anywhere without their all-star point guard (1991).

We could be better than those early 2000s Cavs, but it will also depend on the development of our young prospects (Sexton, Osman, Zizic), Koby Altman's future transactions, and Lue's ability to coach. Clearly there's more promise compared to before?
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This Cavaliers team, even without LeBron, is MUCH better, at least talent-wise, than the Cavaliers teams of the late 90's and early 2000's. It's tough to even compare those teams though because the game is so different nowadays, from the pace of the game to the emphasis on the three point shot to the de-emphasis of the traditional NBA center. The game is drastically different nowadays and is played strictly outside-in, instead of inside-out.

The modern day Cavs have been so reliant on LeBron James, and deferred to him so often, that it is almost impossible to know what to expect. Certainly they will have to adopt more of a team ball style and players will have to step up. The obvious guys to step up are the veterans, like Kevin Love & Tristan Thompson. Also keep an eye on young veterans, like Larry Nancy & Jordan Clarkson, as well as the young guys, Osman, Zizic, & Sexton. How these guys gel and how they perform, in their increased roles, will tell the tale.
 
You know how over the past few years there were those games that we should of won, but lost? Those unexplainable losses to the likes of the Knicks, Kings, Nets, others. Now we can be that team some nights when we take down some of the better teams. I'll enjoy those wins in the middle of the winter.
 
Jake said:
You know how over the past few years there were those games that we should of won, but lost? Those unexplainable losses to the likes of the Knicks, Kings, Nets, others. Now we can be that team some nights when we take down some of the better teams. I'll enjoy those wins in the middle of the winter.
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Great point! Those were some of my favorite times during our last rebuild.
 
If we kept everyone, and JR Smith wants to "opt in", rather than throwing soup on coaches, the Cavs will not be that bad of a team.
 
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