A closer look at Harrison Barnes

[Derek]

Why?

They seemingly both struggle with the same things. Mediocre handle, inability to create off the dribble.

Between the two, I like Barnes because of his ability to be a top defender at the 3 and his makeup.

Since when does Beal have a mediocre handle and struggle to create off the dribble?

 

[MRMsix6]

Also.... I have always had such a hard time believing MKG is 230+ lbs. He looks so skinny. Barnes on other hand looks ripped and he's only 210. Doesn't seem right to me.

listed weights are always fudged

 

[AZ_]

Since when does Beal have a mediocre handle and struggle to create off the dribble?

[video=youtube;sKAWjKUZmjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKAWjKUZmjw[/video]

 

[Derek]

[video=youtube;sKAWjKUZmjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKAWjKUZmjw[/video]

Did you ever actually watch him play or are you just basing your opinions on a video with half the footage from his second career college game?

Beal's ball handling is one of his strengths. He put in a ton of work throughout the season was was running Florida's offense come tournament time.

Here's an excerpt from DraftExpress:
"...Beal's ball-handling and playmaking skills appear to have improved significantly over the past year or so. Extremely effective in transition, Beal can create for himself and others in smooth and effortless fashion off the dribble with his ability to change speeds and put the ball on the floor with either hand."

I'm fact here's what SwishScout (the makers of your video) said:
"For a natural off guard, Beal handles the ball well and can operate as a secondary ball handler bringing the ball up the floor. He’s not an ankle breaker with quick strike moves to routinely beat his man off the dribble, but he’s decisive, dribbling with purpose. *He’s an aggressive driver who will go straight-line when given an open lane coming off screens.*Has a nice crossover, hesitation, and step back move with the ability to*isolate and create his own shot, but won’t dribble more than he needs to.*Will force some drives into defenders and traffic around the basket, but has the physical frame to handle contact and finish at the basket. Solid job of drawing fouls in his freshman season, getting to the line 4.7 times per game."

Calling his ball handling mediocre is just so far off base.

 

[Wulfgar1224]

Definitely time to give up after selecting him in the draft, make sure you don't wait until you actually see what happens.

It's all about perception, MKG gets to play the roll of King Golden Dick because his team mashed on people. In reality he's just as much a role player as Barnes projects to be (albeit in a different capacity - slasher/getting to the rim)


Barnes projects to be a role player who can give you 17-21 with a quick release and solid defense but he sucks because he didn't dominate all the time surrounded by 5 other first rounders at UNC (much like MKG).


It's amazing how differently these guys are looked upon when they both project to be pretty similar at the next level (secondary options, glue guys).

Yeah, I'm not sure why there is so much animosity directed toward Barnes. I think he'll be a solid player and his skillset will be a good fit alongside Kyrie. Aside from Davis, they aren't any players without some downside at least. MKG has a lousy outside shot; Beal is undersized; Barnes lacks explosive playmaking ability, and Drummond has a low motor. I'd probably prefer MKG and Beal. But, I certainly wouldn't be made if they drafted Barnes at 4.

 

[AZ_]

Did you ever actually watch him play or are you just basing your opinions on a video with half the footage from his second career college game?

Beal's ball handling is one of his strengths. He put in a ton of work throughout the season was was running Florida's offense come tournament time.

Here's an excerpt from DraftExpress:
"...Beal's ball-handling and playmaking skills appear to have improved significantly over the past year or so. Extremely effective in transition, Beal can create for himself and others in smooth and effortless fashion off the dribble with his ability to change speeds and put the ball on the floor with either hand."

I'm fact here's what SwishScout (the makers of your video) said:
"For a natural off guard, Beal handles the ball well and can operate as a secondary ball handler bringing the ball up the floor. He’s not an ankle breaker with quick strike moves to routinely beat his man off the dribble, but he’s decisive, dribbling with purpose. *He’s an aggressive driver who will go straight-line when given an open lane coming off screens.*Has a nice crossover, hesitation, and step back move with the ability to*isolate and create his own shot, but won’t dribble more than he needs to.*Will force some drives into defenders and traffic around the basket, but has the physical frame to handle contact and finish at the basket. Solid job of drawing fouls in his freshman season, getting to the line 4.7 times per game."

Calling his ball handling mediocre is just so far off base.

I saw him in person during the NCAA tourney in Phoenix and came away impressed in comparison to what I saw on the OSU game.

Certainly hope he improved, given his age. But it's far from elite or consistent at this point either.

Barnes has certainly flashed potential to improve in this area as well. I don't think either of these guys are going to make a living on their slash and drive ability in comparison to their shooting ability.

 

[Derek]

I saw him in person during the NCAA tourney in Phoenix and came away impressed in comparison to what I saw on the OSU game.

Certainly hope he improved, given his age. But it's far from elite or consistent at this point either.

Barnes has certainly flashed potential to improve in this area as well. I don't think either of these guys are going to make a living on their slash and drive ability in comparison to their shooting ability.

I don't think so either, but Beal can run the point a little and is at the very least a good secondary ball handler. If his ball handling is mediocre then Barnes' is anemic.

FWIW, I think Barnes will be a solid player, I just think Beal will be better.

 

[metalman213]

Well it's been really fun talking to you guy for almost 4 years, but I don't think I can take the Barnes selection. My hearts been broken every year since 2004 as a Cavs fan and I honestly don't think I can take it anymore. Please just let this be a smoke screen.We can do better!

I know its rough. But if the player Ben hinted to in the other thread is waiters/pj3/rivers/ whoever... trust me you'll be hoping for barnes

 

[RedBlackAttack]

Definitely time to give up after selecting him in the draft, make sure you don't wait until you actually see what happens.

It's all about perception, MKG gets to play the roll of King Golden Dick because his team mashed on people. In reality he's just as much a role player as Barnes projects to be (albeit in a different capacity - slasher/getting to the rim)


Barnes projects to be a role player who can give you 17-21 with a quick release and solid defense but he sucks because he didn't dominate all the time surrounded by 5 other first rounders at UNC (much like MKG).


It's amazing how differently these guys are looked upon when they both project to be pretty similar at the next level (secondary options, glue guys).

In actuality, they are nothing alike.

Wherever this "Barnes is going to be an elite defender" stuff is coming from, I'm not going to totally dismiss it because he has the length at the position to be good on that end of the floor and if he puts in the work, he can probably get there... But MKG is a natural born beastly defender and you could see it the moment he stepped on the floor in Kentucky. I have little doubt that MKG will be an elite defender in the NBA, any position, and probably soon. Barnes doesn't have that kind of ceiling on the defensive end from what I've seen. He may end up being a good defender, but he isn't on MKG's level in that department. Gilchrist is a really dynamic defensive player, be it on-ball, playing the passing lanes, protecting the rim, etc.

On the other side of the floor he does more than just "slashing to the basket." He is a very good ball handler for his position and an above average passer. He also has elite rebounding skills for the 3 position. Basically, the only thing that he doesn't do well on the offensive end is shoot the ball, but he also isn't as awful as some make it out to be. Awful shooters don't make 75-percent of their free throws as a freshman in college. It is the weakest part of his game, but considering he does just about everything else so well, that isn't saying much.

Barnes, on the other hand, is a good shooter, but I don't seen him as an elite shooting prospect. The idea that Barnes' shooting prowess cancels out all of the things that MKG does better is just crazy, imo. Maybe if he were Glen Rice or Ray Allen, but he's not... And he's not close. He makes some flashy, difficult looking jumpers, but he also misses a good bit of the time.

Say what you will about MKG's shortcomings as a jumpshooter, but he is a much more efficient scorer than Barnes and probably always will be. If Barnes was forced into a lot of difficult shots on the college level, it will be even more pronounced in the NBA.


It just still feels to me as though Barnes is living off of his immense reputation coming out of high school, which is amazing considering he underperformed in not one, but two seasons at UNC. I honestly believed that when we got the No. 4 slot, we were out of Harrison Barnes territory. That is the main reason I was so relieved we didn't get No. 5 or No. 6 in that lottery... Because that is how little I wanted Harrison Barnes to even be an option. The idea that Grant and Co. are still zoning in on this guy makes me literally cringe.


This is the way I prefer to look at it:

Ball handling: MKG > Barnes
Playmaking: MKG > Barnes
Slashing: MKG > Barnes
Shooting: Barnes > MKG
Rebounding: MKG > Barnes
Defense: MKG > Barnes

And this isn't factoring in things like being a hard-worker, which may be a quality that Barnes has (I honestly couldn't say), but MKG is renowned for the way he works... And ego, which is one of my greatest fears with Barnes, what with his going back to school to improve his 'brand' and the whole 'Black Falcon' thing.... While MKG seems like a very quiet, confident, unassuming guy.



Please god... Make this a smokescreen.

 

[chrisrich91]

Well it's been really fun talking to you guy for almost 4 years, but I don't think I can take the Barnes selection. My hearts been broken every year since 2004 as a Cavs fan and I honestly don't think I can take it anymore. Please just let this be a smoke screen.We can do better!

Come on now. This would not be a legit reason to stop rooting for your favorite team. Judging by your posts throughout the forums, you obviously have the desire to bail and root for LeBron and the Heat but just feel guilty about it. If you're heart isn't truly invested in a Cleveland team, just get out while you can.

Spoiler alert, they never win the ship.

 

[BA_CavsFan]

We've discussed Barnes' game ad nauseum at this point, and there's probably nothing besides workouts that will change anybody's mind about it. But I think he's really being ignored as one of the best interviewees of today. Virtually every single interview he's ever given has impressed me by how professionally he speaks and his maturity. I'm not saying having a command over the English language is enough to justify being picked at 4, but Kyrie and Tristan also have Barnes' strong speaking skill, meaning Grant seems to value this trait to some degree. Here's his interview from the combine:

[video=youtube;kTp5bqFtVBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTp5bqFtVBM[/video]

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

We've discussed Barnes' game ad nauseum at this point, and there's probably nothing besides workouts that will change anybody's mind about it. But I think he's really being ignored as one of the best interviewees of today. Virtually every single interview he's ever given has impressed me by how professionally he speaks and his maturity. I'm not saying having a command over the English language is enough to justify being picked at 4, but Kyrie and Tristan also have Barnes' strong speaking skill, meaning Grant seems to value this trait to some degree. Here's his interview from the combine:

[video=youtube;kTp5bqFtVBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTp5bqFtVBM[/video]

Good interview, however, it is probably the absolute last thing I care about when determing who I hope we draft.

Also.... just watched Thomas Robinson.... He seemed uncomfortable/annoyed/pissed during his interview. He also seemed intense and like he just wants to play. Sounded like he legitimately believes he is the best player in the draft and isn't afraid to say it.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

We've discussed Barnes' game ad nauseum at this point, and there's probably nothing besides workouts that will change anybody's mind about it. But I think he's really being ignored as one of the best interviewees of today. Virtually every single interview he's ever given has impressed me by how professionally he speaks and his maturity. I'm not saying having a command over the English language is enough to justify being picked at 4, but Kyrie and Tristan also have Barnes' strong speaking skill, meaning Grant seems to value this trait to some degree. Here's his interview from the combine:

[video=youtube;kTp5bqFtVBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTp5bqFtVBM[/video]

I think most of us understand that he is PR savvy... Not something I really care much about. He's been groomed for this stuff since early in his high school years and he clearly isn't really low IQ (like some nameless individual who was also brought up in front of cameras in the early-00s).

It doesn't tell me anything about his true personality and/or ego.

 

[AZ_]

In actuality, they are nothing alike.

Wherever this "Barnes is going to be an elite defender" stuff is coming from, I'm not going to totally dismiss it because he has the length at the position to be good on that end of the floor and if he puts in the work, he can probably get there... But MKG is a natural born beastly defender and you could see it the moment he stepped on the floor in Kentucky. I have little doubt that MKG will be an elite defender in the NBA, any position, and probably soon. Barnes doesn't have that kind of ceiling on the defensive end from what I've seen. He may end up being a good defender, but he isn't on MKG's level in that department. Gilchrist is a really dynamic defensive player, be it on-ball, playing the passing lanes, protecting the rim, etc.

On the other side of the floor he does more than just "slashing to the basket." He is a very good ball handler for his position and an above average passer. He also has elite rebounding skills for the 3 position. Basically, the only thing that he doesn't do well on the offensive end is shoot the ball, but he also isn't as awful as some make it out to be. Awful shooters don't make 75-percent of their free throws as a freshman in college. It is the weakest part of his game, but considering he does just about everything else so well, that isn't saying much.

Barnes, on the other hand, is a good shooter, but I don't seen him as an elite shooting prospect. The idea that Barnes' shooting prowess cancels out all of the things that MKG does better is just crazy, imo. Maybe if he were Glen Rice or Ray Allen, but he's not... And he's not close. He makes some flashy, difficult looking jumpers, but he also misses a good bit of the time.

Say what you will about MKG's shortcomings as a jumpshooter, but he is a much more efficient scorer than Barnes and probably always will be. If Barnes was forced into a lot of difficult shots on the college level, it will be even more pronounced in the NBA.


It just still feels to me as though Barnes is living off of his immense reputation coming out of high school, which is amazing considering he underperformed in not one, but two seasons at UNC. I honestly believed that when we got the No. 4 slot, we were out of Harrison Barnes territory. That is honestly the reason I was so relieved we didn't get No. 5 or No. 6 in that lottery... Because that is how little I wanted Harrison Barnes to even be an option. The idea that Grant and Co. are still zoning in on this guy makes me literally cringe.


This is the way I prefer to look at it:

Ball handling: MKG > Barnes
Playmaking: MKG > Barnes
Slashing: MKG > Barnes
Shooting: Barnes > MKG
Rebounding: MKG > Barnes
Defense: MKG > Barnes

And this isn't factoring in things like being a hard-worker, which may be a quality that Barnes has (I honestly couldn't say), but MKG is renowned for the way he works... And ego, which is one of my greatest fears with Barnes, what with his going back to school to improve his 'brand' and the whole 'Black Falcon' thing.... While MKG seems like a very quiet, confident, unassuming guy.



Please god... Make this a smokescreen.

Seems as though you've read a lot more on MGK than you have about Barnes.

Taking nothing away from MGK, who also excels in this capacity, Barnes is an extremely intelligent kid who is well spoken and works extremely hard.

I'm sorry, but his free throw percentage is not something that overcomes his complete lack of anything resembling a perimeter game (or at least how his projects at the next level).

While Barnes is a mediocre ball-handler (at this stage of his career), he still has the ability to bring the ball upcourt because he's a great passer (> than MGK) and extremely confident in his ability to run the offense.

At the end of the day, like I said, both of these guys will be role players because of their deficiencies in certain areas of their game. But I'm just not convinced that I value MGK's ability to slash and get to the hoop more than Barnes' ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor.

The love for one and the hate for the other is pretty astounding to me.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

Seems as though you've read a lot more on MGK than you have about Barnes.

Taking nothing away from MGK, who also excels in this capacity, Barnes is an extremely intelligent kid who is well spoken and works extremely hard.

I'm sorry, but his free throw percentage is not something that overcomes his complete lack of anything resembling a perimeter game (or at least how his projects at the next level).

While Barnes is a mediocre ball-handler (at this stage of his career), he still has the ability to bring the ball upcourt because he's a great passer (> than MGK) and extremely confident in his ability to run the offense.

At the end of the day, like I said, both of these guys will be role players because of their deficiencies in certain areas of their game. But I'm just not convinced that I value MGK's ability to slash and get to the hoop more than Barnes' ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor.

The love for one and the hate for the other is pretty astounding to me.

Whoa. Barnes is confident in his ability to run the offense? Because, I saw the exact opposite in the tournament when he was called upon to do exactly that when Kendall Marshall went down. He looked anything BUT confident with the ball in his hands and his teammates waiting for him to make a play. I don't think he had a single assist in the first two games of the tourney... and he had several turnovers.

I'm not sure what you've seen that makes you believe Barnes is a good passer, but I haven't seen it. I don't believe he is even close to MKG in terms of ball-handling, playmaking.... or passing.

He isn't a well-rounded player at all... At least compared to a jack of all trades like MKG.



And, again... Having love for one and not loving the other makes perfect sense, because their respective games are NOTHING alike.