Dodgers, Indians "In Serious Discussions" About Lee, Martinez

[Chris]

Gimme a break, James Loney the centerpiece? Shapiro isn't an idiot.

 

[edibleme]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/dodgers-indians-in-serious-discussions-about-lee-martinez.html

Sounds great....James Loney is a nice player,but would much rather have Chad Billingsly and or Clayton Kershaw and prospects OR better yet, Billingsly and Kershaw...only fair, but BOTH Victor and Lee for a top pitcher and prospects...doesn't seem fair to me. The Dodgers are automatically the favorites with the additions of lee and Martinez.

 

[-Akronite-]

So now I'll be left with no one but a gimped Sizemore and Cabrera (who will never be a star) to like on this team.

Just great, what's the fucking point of watching games if we don't even have a best pitcher or a best hitter on the team? If Shapiro sends them off, I'm calling his head along with Wedge, Dolan, and any jackass they might in that FO, this is just ridiculous.

If we aren't competing now and won't in the future, why not keep some talent to bring in ticket sales instead of shipping off everyone on the team that knows how to play the damn game.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Sounds great....James Loney is a nice pitcher,but would much rather have Chad Billingsly and prospects OR better yet, Billingsly and Laoney...only fair, but BOTH Victor and Lee for a top pitcher and prospects...doesn't seem fair to me. The Dodgers are automatically the favorites with the additions of lee and Martinez.

James Loney may be a good pitcher, but he's a much better first baseman.

And for those thinking Loney is a light hitter, check his away splits. He has an .876 OPS away from Chavez Ravine.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

So now I'll be left with no one but a gimped Sizemore and Cabrera (who will never be a star) to like on this team.

Just great, what's the fucking point of watching games if we don't even have a best pitcher or a best hitter on the team? If Shapiro sends them off, I'm calling his head along with Wedge, Dolan, and any jackass they might in that FO, this is just ridiculous.

If we aren't competing now and won't in the future, why not keep some talent to bring in ticket sales instead of shipping off everyone on the team that knows how to play the damn game.

So with falling attendance and a shit economy, how do you propose we keep Cliff Lee, who already said he's testing the 2010 FA market, and Victor without losing boat loads of money?

 

[MoFlo]

So now I'll be left with no one but a gimped Sizemore and Cabrera (who will never be a star) to like on this team.

Just great, what's the fucking point of watching games if we don't even have a best pitcher or a best hitter on the team? If Shapiro sends them off, I'm calling his head along with Wedge, Dolan, and any jackass they might in that FO, this is just ridiculous.

If we aren't competing now and won't in the future, why not keep some talent to bring in ticket sales instead of shipping off everyone on the team that knows how to play the damn game.

Even with these guys, we're not selling tickets..

Even with these guys, we're not winning games..

So what exactly does it hurt if we trade them, as opposed to losing them for nothing?

 

[AM24]

Also note that while Kershaw has a terrific arm, he is not a top starter yet and has things to work on- notably 4.8 BB/9. His stats are based on outstanding home #s in a pitcher's park. Away from there, he is much more pedestrian (4.41 ERA). What happens when he moves to a neutral park in the BigKid League, the AL? I would love him as a centerpiece, but the team has to be getting more than another 1B with questionable power.

Kershaw is 21. If he had no flaws, we wouldn't be discussing him in this trade. But he's a 21 year old with a 2.96 ERA and he strikes out a better per inning. That isn't just ace material, that has future Hall-of-Famer written all over it.

 

[-Akronite-]

So with falling attendance and a shit economy, how do you propose we keep Cliff Lee, who already said he's testing the 2010 FA market, and Victor without losing boat loads of money?

I don't know, maybe if we had an owner that actually gave a shit about the team instead of seeing it as purely a financial venture with merchandise we could keep talent over the years and compete, bringing in tickets. We have had some great talent just leave for prospects many times in the past because we are so cheap.

I'd rather sit around for three hours marveling at Jacob's Field than actual pay attention to the Tribe fuck themselves on the diamond.

I'm just generally angry at the organization that it has gotten to a point where most people are just okay with trading off our only good players because that's "the way it is in Cleveland".

 

[Ajak0410]

I'm an Indians fan first but I'm also a Dodgers fan and I like this trade for both teams. Loney has a lot of potential but I think Ethier or Kemp are more likely to be moved. Kershaw is one of the best young pitchers in the game but Martinez and Lee would fill great needs for the Blue.

The Indians are depressing and need to rebuild from the front office on down and the Dodgers have some really exciting young players that could ease that transition. The tribe is a couple years away from contention so as much as I love them, there's just no reason to hang on to VMart or Lee. Kershaw and Loney would be great pieces to start over with but again, I don't see Kershaw or Loney being moved. When you have the best record in baseball, it's tough to bust up what you have going, especially when it involves shipping out two of your best young players.

 

[PIP]

Maybe so, but LA is clearly going for gold this season and they have a great team already. That trade would make them favorites and certainly give them a superb chance at winning the WS. And that's the goal, right? That's why you play the game. You can sit on great prospects all day but sometimes you just gotta reach out...if it was a deal for Vmart and Lee I could see Kershaw being given up seeing as you're getting 2 All Stars.

The Dodgers get grouped in with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets etc... However, they run their team a bit differently.. Rarely will they throw money around, and deal big time prospects for players... Kevin Brown about 10 years ago and Manny last year were really the only two examples of the Dodgers going out and making bold moves (besides trading the great Piazza)

The Dodgers are building for this year (with a team good enough to win it already) and the future..

If I was the GM, I would look to upgrade at 1st with Victor, or if Delgado comes back, maybe him... However, trading Kershaw is an absurd idea with how they build their team.. Especially for Lee.. I know he's the "reigning" CY Young award winner, but I'm not sold on him being a big game pitcher, especially when you're asking him to switch leagues...

Wouldn't be a smart move for the Dodgers IMO..

The most important point is this: Clayton Kershaw was the best player, right now, in that trade.

Yup.. He has the ability to be a dominant #1... With the Dodgers sporting the best record already, there's no need to make such a drastic move, especially when you're dealing a younger pitcher who has that type of stuff...

 

[BlueSeats626]

I don't know, maybe if we had an owner that actually gave a shit about the team instead of seeing it as purely a financial venture with merchandise we could keep talent over the years and compete, bringing in tickets. We have had some great talent just leave for prospects many times in the past because we are so cheap.

I'd rather sit around for three hours marveling at Jacob's Field than actual pay attention to the Tribe fuck themselves on the diamond.

I'm just generally angry at the organization that it has gotten to a point where most people are just okay with trading off our only good players because that's "the way it is in Cleveland".

The Indians started the season with a payroll ranked 14th out of 30. That is plenty for this market, this economy, and the fickle nature of attendance at Indians games. Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I get the feeling that people in this town wouldn't care if the Indians won 50 games all season as long as they spend like the Yankees.

The Indians aren't in the position they are in because of their payroll. It is their lack of player evaluation and development in the minor leagues.

Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.

 

[DougHeil]

Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.

Jeremy Sowers did JUST win one game yesterday. What more do you wish?

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Jeremy Guthrie...ugh...

 

[The Oi]

That's a really odd comparison. Could you expand upon that a little bit?

Different positions, different offensive approaches, different defensive abilities.

I'm not talking about defense. Loney's defense is very, very good. I'm talking about offensively. Offensively, Loney's numbers have looked pretty similar to what I was expecting Francisco to be at right now or next year:

Average power, about a .280-.290 guy, 75 runs, 75 RBI's, a couple SB's here and there. Nothing spectacular, but decent in most categories. I think we have enough guys in the lineup right now who are middle of the road at a lot of things, but not spectacular on offense.

I don't know if those numbers are enough for a Cy Young pitcher and a top 5 catcher in the game.

All that said...

If the dude really COULD pull off .300, 20, 90+ then I'd gladly eat my words especially because he does not K very much.

 

[PIP]

I dunno, I like Loney's potential quite a bit... And he's only 25 or 26 I believe...

He could definitely be a .300 hitter with 20 homers and 90 RBI.. Although, I do believe the Tribe needs some speedsters and a real quality power bat...I'd also like to see them take the patient hitting approach..

The Olerud comparison is interesting...However, I don't know if he can tap into that .350+ potential that Olerud showed a couple times... He was really weird in the sense that he would hit .290+ and then have a year where he would bust out a .350+ followed by more seasons of .290+

If Loney could give you Olerud or Will Clark type of potential, it's a no brainer...