Dodgers, Indians "In Serious Discussions" About Lee, Martinez

[kidduck]

Originally posted by BlueSeats626:

<i>The Indians started the season with a payroll ranked 14th out of 30. That is plenty for this market, this economy, and the fickle nature of attendance at Indians games. Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I get the feeling that people in this town wouldn't care if the Indians won 50 games all season as long as they spend like the Yankees.

The Indians aren't in the position they are in because of their payroll. It is their lack of player evaluation and development in the minor leagues.

<b>Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.
</b> </i>

Answer- Tim Lincecum.

Hey, you didn't say the player had to sign with Cleveland, just be one of their draft picks.

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by BlueSeats626:

<i>The Indians started the season with a payroll ranked 14th out of 30. That is plenty for this market, this economy, and the fickle nature of attendance at Indians games. Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I get the feeling that people in this town wouldn't care if the Indians won 50 games all season as long as they spend like the Yankees.

The Indians aren't in the position they are in because of their payroll. It is their lack of player evaluation and development in the minor leagues.

<b>Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.
</b> </i>

Answer- Tim Lincecum.

Hey, you didn't say the player had to sign with Cleveland, just be one of their draft picks.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement :chuckles:

 

[Otsego Mar]

The Indians started the season with a payroll ranked 14th out of 30. That is plenty for this market, this economy, and the fickle nature of attendance at Indians games. Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I get the feeling that people in this town wouldn't care if the Indians won 50 games all season as long as they spend like the Yankees.

The Indians aren't in the position they are in because of their payroll. It is their lack of player evaluation and development in the minor leagues.

Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.

Am I missing something here? I think what most diehard fans want is simply a RING OF SOME FUCKING KIND. I don't care if they have a payroll the size of PIP's limp dong. Maybe win something and then people will show up. We already have 1 team that continually has fans that shows up to support a perennial loser (Browns)....we don't need another.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I seem to recall a bunch of sell-outs at some point when we had a good team in the 90's..

Anyone able to find that number of sell outs by any chance? 400 some? In a ROW you say??!!! Wow....

If the Indians field a competitive team this city will back them to the fullest extent of fan-dom.


Now to the trade front, unless we're getting a home-run deal with Kershaw/Billingsley/Loney/etc, there's no reason to deal Cliff or V-Mart this year. If we're not going to get a great deal, wait until next year and sell them for the same pennies on the dollar that's being offered to you now. Just Lonsey+prospects(if that's what L.A. is offering) is going to be available a year from now if we're still in the same predicament. If not, just wait until next year(lol Cleveland), and see if we can maybe field a competitive team before you trade two of our best players away for close to nothing.

But hey, if we can get Kershaw and/or Billingsley along with Loney and a few prospects...sign me the fuck up!!!

 

[bob2the2nd]

I seem to recall a bunch of sell-outs at some point when we had a good team in the 90's..

Anyone able to find that number of sell outs by any chance? 400 some? In a ROW you say??!!! Wow....

If the Indians field a competitive team this city will back them to the fullest extent of fan-dom.

dont get me wrong i think the attendence would increase significantly if this team was in contention again, however that sell out streak ended more than 8 years ago. Not to mention there was a series of events that lead to it, including there being no Browns franchase for most of the streak, the cavs totally sucking, and a strong economy.

at best the indians are a .500 team and have been for a couple of years, not to mention the cavs are taking almost all of the cities sports attention up to june (a month into the baseball season season).

If the indians had a year+ of success and indians signed a free agent or two and didnt lose anyone I think you would see a turn around of attendence, but every time this team looks like a contender something happens and they take several steps back

 

[macbdog]

This thread has gone way OT. I am pretty sure there is a 'Dolan is cheap' thread somewhere here that someone can resurrect. There is one of these on every Indians message board.

Like it or not, Cliff Lee is going to test FA. While I prefer to keep him and try to win next year I can understand the club looking and seeking offers in case a team gets stupid. Same goes for Victor. He is more likely to stay with the Indians and sign, but he is also a C who has hit 30. They tend to start to go south from the wear and tear. The team has to consider this. I don't want to see him go but the club has to explore their options.

I am not a fan of the Dodgers proposal for a # of reasons, but who knows? If the Tribe could get them to surrender Chad Billingsley for Lee+a Garko, then I hope Shapiro can pull it off.

 

[BlueSeats626]

I seem to recall a bunch of sell-outs at some point when we had a good team in the 90's..

I seem to recall 2005 and 2007. I seem to remember going to games during those years during the months of August and September and seeing a stadium half full. I still remember driving up to go to an ALCS game in 2007 and hearing half the callers to the drive-time sports talk shows want to talk about whether Brady Quinn should start or not.

You can't compare it to the mid 90s. It was a perfect storm with the Cavs, no Browns, new stadium, etc.

My theory is that the Cavs are now what the Indians were ten years ago. All of the yuppies with floor seats at Cavs games now are the same ones who had field box seats during the 90s. Indians games are no longer to the place to be seen. The Cavs are now.

I call it the Yuppie Effect.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I seem to recall 2005 and 2007. I seem to remember going to games during those years during the months of August and September and seeing a stadium half full. I still remember driving up to go to an ALCS game in 2007 and hearing half the callers to the drive-time sports talk shows want to talk about whether Brady Quinn should start or not.

You can't compare it to the mid 90s. It was a perfect storm with the Cavs, no Browns, new stadium, etc.

My theory is that the Cavs are now what the Indians were ten years ago. All of the yuppies with floor seats at Cavs games now are the same ones who had field box seats during the 90s. Indians games are no longer to the place to be seen. The Cavs are now.

I call it the Yuppie Effect.

My point was, if the Indians field a consistently good team, they'll get the "Yuppies", or at least some of them, back. It's not a problem with the city supporting them or not, if they consistently put out a good product, they'll get people to root for them. Very few teams/franchises can suck for as long and as much as the Indians have without feeling a huge downturn in their fan-base.

A perfect example is actually the Browns, believe it or not, lol.

But the fans will come when the Indians stop sucking.

 

[DougHeil]

My point was, if the Indians field a consistently good team, they'll get the "Yuppies", or at least some of them, back. It's not a problem with the city supporting them or not, if they consistently put out a good product, they'll get people to root for them. Very few teams/franchises can suck for as long and as much as the Indians have without feeling a huge downturn in their fan-base.

A perfect example is actually the Browns, believe it or not, lol.

But the fans will come when the Indians stop sucking.

That's a good point. The fans of Cleveland sports have always been there. They are arguably the best fans in sports. The Indians need to shake things up in a big way in order to start filling up the stands for next year. I don't see any one trade or anything much else that would do that except for one thing; Fire Wedge and replace him with Omar.

Yeah, we know he has no managerial experience, but it can be debated that Wedge had any either. At this point, I don't see what the Indians or the Dolans have to lose. What?... more losing seasons? We already have those anyway.

 

[BlueSeats626]

But the fans will come when the Indians stop sucking.

Then why were September games in 2005 and 2007 seeing attendances under 20k? Good teams in the midst of a pennant race, usually always draw better than that.

 

[mixman]

At this point I'd be shocked if Victor and Lee are still here by the weekend. Hopefully the young pitching we get works out.

 

[johnnycake44022]

Then why were September games in 2005 and 2007 seeing attendances under 20k? Good teams in the midst of a pennant race, usually always draw better than that.

I think thats a fair statement. I remember when they clinched in 07, the stands were not full. I think part of that is that people constantly compare the Indians to the 90's teams. Anything not up to those standards people have a hard time believing in (particularly considering how good we were and still didn't win it all). In fact, I heard that from a bunch of friends in 07. "Its just not the same.....I don't have the same tie to this team as in the 90's." I also think its hard investing year after year to be disappointed constantly. That 07 cluster f against Boston was a really hard one to take....for me anyways.

Call it the Yuppie effect, as you call it, but I think people are going to invest their dollars with a winner. If you don't put a winning team (or at least an exciting one to watch) on the field, an owner shouldn't be rewarded for that. I for one don't want to pay a bunch of money just to be disappointed by another bullpen meltdown.

 

[Ayatolla of Slamola]

Just saw this on a poker forum from a Phillys fan:

According to ESPN the Phillies and Indians are close to making a deal for Cliff Lee. And Carlos Carrasco was scratched from his AAA start today. And apparently both Lou Marson and Jason Donald were also scratched today as well. So that looks like the deal that is going to be done.