Dodgers, Indians "In Serious Discussions" About Lee, Martinez

[macbdog]

Kershaw is 21. If he had no flaws, we wouldn't be discussing him in this trade. But he's a 21 year old with a 2.96 ERA and he strikes out a better per inning. That isn't just ace material, that has future Hall-of-Famer written all over it.

Jaret Wright was also 21 when he was leading the Tribe to within 2 outs of winning the World Series and drawing comparisons to a young Roger Clemens. It isn't about him not having flaws, it is about being realistic and not giving away two All-Stars for a guy who might one day be. Dodgers' pitching prospects are routinely overrated and their young pitchers tend to be a result of their home park. Again, he has a 4.41 ERA pitching away from the friendly confines of Chavez Ravine. Chad Billingsley, on the other hand, has had two years of even home/away splits. I am much more interested in him + prospects.

He is an oustanding young pitcher and I don't doubt that he has the potential of a bright future- but he + a non-power hitting 1B are not enough for the reigning Cy Young winner and Victor.

 

[AM24]

All that said...

If the dude really COULD pull off .300, 20, 90+ then I'd gladly eat my words especially because he does not K very much.

He could easily IMO.

He plays in a bandbox. Dodger Stadium is the 2nd most pitcher friendly ballpark after Petco.

Loney has 701 ABs in his career on the road. Per 600 ABs (about a season's worth of regular duty), Loney's stats would look like this:

85 runs
36 doubles
24 HRs
111 RBIs

And AVG/OBP/SLG of .324/.375/.525.

This is the player Loney is. His stats just look bad because he plays in Dodger Stadium. Using road splits is much more useful than trying to make a point using home splits for the obvious reasons. If a player is traded to a different team but in the same league, his road splits should not change much, if at all.

 

[MoFlo]

The Indians started the season with a payroll ranked 14th out of 30. That is plenty for this market, this economy, and the fickle nature of attendance at Indians games. Hell, people don't even show up to the games when they field a good team.

I get the feeling that people in this town wouldn't care if the Indians won 50 games all season as long as they spend like the Yankees.

The Indians aren't in the position they are in because of their payroll. It is their lack of player evaluation and development in the minor leagues.

Name me one Mark Shapiro draft pick who has made an impact at the MLB level.

Agree almost completely..

Don't forget also, that money plays a big role into who the Indians draft.. if a guy is harder to sign, they probably aren't going to sign him.. The majority of the time, they're going to go with the safe pick, and that obviously doesn't always work..

Is that the right strategy? Probably not, but when you have a set budget to spend on draft picks, you almost have no other choice.. That's one of the reasons, IMO, that we have as high a payroll as we do (middle of the pack, when our attendance sucks) is because we don't budget a lot for the draft..

 

[Chardon]

can we please get back to this feeling.

 

[AM24]

He is an oustanding young pitcher and I don't doubt that he has the potential of a bright future- but he + a non-power hitting 1B are not enough for the reigning Cy Young winner and Victor.

I'd like to rephrase the question you just answered so I can get to a deeper point.

Would you rather have:

• 1 year of Cliff Lee for $8M

• 1 year of Victor Martinez for $7M

• 2 draft picks when we lose these players

OR

• 3 years of James Loney for a small amount of money

• 4 years of Clayton Kershaw for a small amount of money

• 2 draft picks when we lose these players (albeit draft picks 3/4 years later)

• 1 or 2 other good-to-great prospects that we will control for 4-5 years for low salaries

 

[MoFlo]

can we please get back to this feeling.

Sure, we would have if 3 of these 4 guys would've shown up with consistency the past 2 seasons at the major league level:

 

[macbdog]

I'd rather have Victor for the rest of his career (at whatever cost) and whatever Shapiro can get for Lee between now and next year's trade deadline.

Again, dealing two All-Stars for a kid who might be (Kershaw) and the NL's Ryan Garko is not a smart move.

 

[Ajak0410]

I'd rather have Victor for the rest of his career (at whatever cost) and whatever Shapiro can get for Lee between now and next year's trade deadline.

Again, dealing two All-Stars for a kid who might be (Kershaw) and the NL's Ryan Garko is not a smart move.

I would like to keep Victor forever as well but you're seriously underrating Loney and Kershaw. The Garko comparison especially.

 

[Silky Smooth]

 

[Cavsfan89]

Anyone notice Vmart wasn't in the lineup today? Probably not, since no one watches the games. I only know because he is on my fantasy team.

 

[di0p]

Agree almost completely..

Don't forget also, that money plays a big role into who the Indians draft.. if a guy is harder to sign, they probably aren't going to sign him.. The majority of the time, they're going to go with the safe pick, and that obviously doesn't always work..

Is that the right strategy? Probably not, but when you have a set budget to spend on draft picks, you almost have no other choice.. That's one of the reasons, IMO, that we have as high a payroll as we do (middle of the pack, when our attendance sucks) is because we don't budget a lot for the draft..

I see where you guys are coming from but its also important to realize that just having a high payroll doesnt mean that we have a good owner/management who are comitted to making the correct decisions. We have a ton of money tied up in guys like Hafner, Peralta, Westbrook, Kerry Wood. These are not the type of guys that you build a contender around, yet much of that 14th ranked payroll is tied up in them. Things arent always what they seem.

As for the trade, I absolutely love Victor Martinez and would hate to trade him for anything, but he is getting older and being a catcher who knows about his health in a few years. If we were blown away by an offer I suppose I wouldn't be upset. I feel the same about Lee.

I am somewhat confused as to why everyone feels the need to insist on a trade this season though. Unless they are blown away by an offer, why not let the year play out, try and get the team healthy (Sizemore, Cabrera, etc.) and make another run next year. We have all seen the Indians and other MLB teams suck one year and make a nice run the next season. If we start next year the same way we did this year, we still have Victor and Lee under contract and can make a deadline deal similar to the Sabathia and Colon deals.

 

[SanduskyCav]

Anyone notice Vmart wasn't in the lineup today? Probably not, since no one watches the games. I only know because he is on my fantasy team.

I watched the game today and I did notice that. I was thinking a trade may have happened and just not announced yet but I saw him in the dugout. Usually Vic plays first when Shoppach starts catcher, kinda weird he didn't play

 

[-KingofKings23-]

This is the only trade I would like but when I say like Im still mad.

 

[elcheato]

I watched the game today and I did notice that. I was thinking a trade may have happened and just not announced yet but I saw him in the dugout. Usually Vic plays first when Shoppach starts catcher, kinda weird he didn't play

Garko and Hafner have been swinging hot bats, my guess is Wedge didn't want them out of the lineup and decided to just give Victor a rest.

 

[MoFlo]

I see where you guys are coming from but its also important to realize that just having a high payroll doesnt mean that we have a good owner/management who are comitted to making the correct decisions. We have a ton of money tied up in guys like Hafner, Peralta, Westbrook, Kerry Wood. These are not the type of guys that you build a contender around, yet much of that 14th ranked payroll is tied up in them. Things arent always what they seem.

As for the trade, I absolutely love Victor Martinez and would hate to trade him for anything, but he is getting older and being a catcher who knows about his health in a few years. If we were blown away by an offer I suppose I wouldn't be upset. I feel the same about Lee.

I am somewhat confused as to why everyone feels the need to insist on a trade this season though. Unless they are blown away by an offer, why not let the year play out, try and get the team healthy (Sizemore, Cabrera, etc.) and make another run next year. We have all seen the Indians and other MLB teams suck one year and make a nice run the next season. If we start next year the same way we did this year, we still have Victor and Lee under contract and can make a deadline deal similar to the Sabathia and Colon deals.

When Haf & Peralta signed their contracts, they were coming off of great seasons & were still young..

Makes sense to sign them through their arby years.. especially since that's always been the Tribe's M.O..

Westbrook is a very solid pitcher when healthy & Wood was a top closer last year.. nobody knew the bullpen would blow up w/ the type of depth we had coming in..

The guys you mentioned we weren't supposed to build around are also guys that were on the roster in '07 & nobody was complaining then..