cdt said:
You're right winning has nothing to do with it. That's why everyone rocks Knicks gear. I'm not about to get into a debate in the Indians forum...I can't stand this team.
Nobody's saying that winning has nothing to do with it.. but if you're Dolan & you have an $82 M payroll, you've had back to back underachieving seasons, are near the bottom of the barrel in attendance, and are scheduled to lose $16 M this season - why would you keep investing in the same 25 guys who have been a part of that? Wouldn't you want to shake things up on the roster a bit.. it's not ownership's fault.. he's invested the money.. Pip hit the nail on the head right here:
They've made errors in the drafting process.. Thus, no young home grown talent on the roster contributing currently... They've made terrible financial decisions in terms of locking up core players such as Westbrook, Carmona, Hafner... They signed Kerry Wood to close, and he's been terrible..
*Poor choices *tough luck *unfortunate, whatever you want to call it ? whomever is making these decisions is not doing a good job...
The team has zero direction... Are they a team rich in pitching ?? Power hitters ?? Patient httters ?? Defense ?? Speed ??
Do they take a lot of pitches ?? Do they steal bases ?? Do they play small ball ??
No to all of this... They're just a middle of the road, average to below average team that has nothing going for them... They're the Royals...
Although, Pip, I wouldn't quite call them the Royals, but I will definitely agree that this team has no identity..
Terrific post here, and not to nitpick :chuckles:, but we do take a lot of pitches.. although, I'll admit, I haven't been paying too much attention to that this season, but I know we've been known the past few years to take close to the most pitches in the league..
Whether it's Wedge or the next manager, we need an identity & we need to do a better job of drafting..
I don't think it's Shapiro's fault with the free agents, however.. like you said, it seems to be just bad luck.. Westbrook was a solid re-signing, Wood was a solid signing.. Westbrook happened to get hurt & Wood's never really gotten into a groove, as he's not had very many opportunities..
The difference between the mid-90s Tribe and the present day Tribe is the talent level of the home grown talent.. if you think back, not a lot of the '95 Indians came from our own system, but the talent level of those who did was unbelievable:
1995 Indians home grown talent:
-Jim Thome
-Manny Ramirez
-Albert Belle
-Charles Nagy
-Herbert Perry
-Chad Ogea
-Julian Tavarez
-Alan Embree
That's a total of 8, which is less than 33% of the roster
2009 Indians home grown talent: (Opening Day roster just to be fair)
-Jhonny Peralta
-Scott Lewis
-Fausto Carmona
-Jensen Lewis
-Rafael Perez
-Trevor Crowe
-Jeremy Sowers
-Ben Francisco
-Victor Martinez
-Ryan Garko
(Note: The same amount exist now: with Gimenez, Sipp, Toregas, Laffey, Huff in the place of S. Lewis, Francisco, Martinez, Garko, Perez)
That's 10, or 40% of the roster was/is home grown talent..
The difference is talent level.. Look at the 1st list.. Belle, Manny, Thome all were stars.. Nagy was a very solid starter, Tavarez was a decent reliever, Perry was solid in his platoon role & Embree/Ogea were serviceable pitchers.. but nobody on this list is horrible..
Now the 2nd list: We all know about Victor.. Garko may end up being a solid major leaguer if he plays everyday.. Perez & Lewis were amazing, but now who knows.. Francisco & Crowe look like 4th OFs, with Crowe possibly being a potential lead off man.. Sowers & Lewis at best, are #3's, but will probably end up being back end guys.. Carmona's completely fallen off the map after an amazing season.. I like Jhonny, but he has been inconsistent.. Besides Victor, no stars or anybody that stands out..