Indians Trade Cliff Lee, Ben Francisco to Phillies for Prospects

[tedginnjr]

What I don't get is how any team can give up a guy who just had one of the best seasons a pitcher has ever had and get back only minor leaguers regardless of whether they're considered a top prospect or not.

Even the Phil Seghi, Gabe Paul Indians never pulled off anything that ridiculous, let alone do it 2? or is it 3x?

Colon was at least a special situation in that the Expos were a doomed club trying to go for it all as their last chance to give the people of Montreal something.

Think about the Twins' trade of Johan Santana a few years back. They got back four prospects, the cornerstone of the deal being Carlos Gomez. Well Carlos Gomez is currently their fourth outfielder, and none of the other guys are in the major leagues. And Santana was arguably the best pitcher in baseball at the time.

 

[CBBI]

Think about the Twins' trade of Johan Santana a few years back. They got back four prospects, the cornerstone of the deal being Carlos Gomez. Well Carlos Gomez is currently their fourth outfielder, and none of the other guys are in the major leagues. And Santana was arguably the best pitcher in baseball at the time.

+1.

And why did the Twins have to settle for such a poor package of prospects? Because they badly misjudged their leverage in the situation. The Twins had the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers all extremely interested in Santana and they waited and waited and waited and eventually those teams decided to move on and the value plummeted.

Watch what happens with Roy Halladay this winter. The Blue Jays had absolutely no reason to hang onto him and now they are going to pay the price when the package of prospects is actually even worse then what they were being offered at the deadline.

 

[Chardon]

Victor went 9 for 8. Lee actually pitched two perfect games in 9 innings. Garko hit 6 homeruns in 5 at bats. Francisco actually struck out, but ran to third and was called safe. Yea.. typical Cleveland things.

 

[SanduskyCav]

Victor went 9 for 8. Lee actually pitched two perfect games in 9 innings. Garko hit 6 homeruns in 5 at bats. Francisco actually struck out, but ran to third and was called safe. Yea.. typical Cleveland things.

Well, I'm going to have to say that you took that a little too far..

 

[CBBI]

Victor went 9 for 8. Lee actually pitched two perfect games in 9 innings. Garko hit 6 homeruns in 5 at bats. Francisco actually struck out, but ran to third and was called safe. Yea.. typical Cleveland things.

Chardon being the worst poster on the board.

Yea... typical RCF things.

 

[Jon]

Think about the Twins' trade of Johan Santana a few years back. They got back four prospects, the cornerstone of the deal being Carlos Gomez. Well Carlos Gomez is currently their fourth outfielder, and none of the other guys are in the major leagues. And Santana was arguably the best pitcher in baseball at the time.

Is that supposed to make me feel better about the situation?

Cliff Lee is signed up through next year, there wasn't even a reason to trade him now.

The '90's were nice, but it looks like we're back to the '70's again.

Between the steroids and the lack of anything like a level playing field, dunno why you guys even bother following MLB anymore.

 

[Chris]

Is that supposed to make me feel better about the situation?

Cliff Lee is signed up through next year, there wasn't even a reason to trade him now.

The '90's were nice, but it looks like we're back to the '70's again.

Between the steroids and the lack of anything like a level playing field, dunno why you guys even bother following MLB anymore.

At least we're LEAVING the steroid era.

The era of "uneven playing field because the top teams just spend $150 million every year to buy up all my free agents" is still truckin' on though.

Lifelong baseball fan and I'm sick of it. But I still love the game so I'll still watch, sigh.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Cliff Lee is signed up through next year, there wasn't even a reason to trade him now.

Bollocks. Cliff Lee has much more trade value right now as compared to next year at the trading deadline.

Don't believe me? Look at Mark Texiera's trade. One year, he's worth a King's Ransom, the next time he's traded, he's worth Casey Kotchman, who has just been traded because he is a below average hitting first baseman.

Now you could say that we didn't get fair value for Lee, which is certainly debatable, but to say there wasn't a reason to trade him now is wrong. Between value and the fact that we are not going to compete in 2010, it was an easy decision.

 

[Marine56]

Chardon being the worst poster on the board.

Yea... typical RCF things.

ouch harsh man

 

[DougHeil]

+1.

And why did the Twins have to settle for such a poor package of prospects? Because they badly misjudged their leverage in the situation. The Twins had the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers all extremely interested in Santana and they waited and waited and waited and eventually those teams decided to move on and the value plummeted.

Watch what happens with Roy Halladay this winter. The Blue Jays had absolutely no reason to hang onto him and now they are going to pay the price when the package of prospects is actually even worse then what they were being offered at the deadline.

Maybe Toronto thinks they can make a run next year? Halladay's contract is through 2010. We don't know what the brass of Toronto was thinking by not trading him this year. Just because Shap and the Doli's thought the Indians can't compete next year, doesn't mean Toronto can't compete either.

We won't really know the value of trading Lee this year for awhile. The Phillies already know the value they received, and are cashing it in.

 

[CBBI]

Maybe Toronto thinks they can make a run next year? Halladay's contract is through 2010. We don't know what the brass of Toronto was thinking by not trading him this year. Just because Shap and the Doli's thought the Indians can't compete next year, doesn't mean Toronto can't compete either.

We won't really know the value of trading Lee this year for awhile. The Phillies already know the value they received, and are cashing it in.

You and I both know that the Blue Jays know they have no shot at competing in THAT division. If they felt like they could compete next year they wouldn't have been shopping Halladay in the first place. If they thought they could compete and weren't looking to shed salary they wouldn't have moved Rolen for scraps.

They tried to play hard ball with Philly and Boston and it ended up blowing up in their faces. Point blank.

 

[DougHeil]

You and I both know that the Blue Jays know they have no shot at competing in THAT division. If they felt like they could compete next year they wouldn't have been shopping Halladay in the first place. If they thought they could compete and weren't looking to shed salary they wouldn't have moved Rolen for scraps.

They tried to play hard ball with Philly and Boston and it ended up blowing up in their faces. Point blank.

Sure, as that's what we certainly do believe, but my point is that we really don't know exactly why they didn't trade him. The plus for them is that they now have him for at least half of next year. The Indians can't say that about Lee now. We gave up on next year before this year was done.

The downer about the fire sale this year is the fact that Wedge will most likely be back. Joy, joy.

 

[THamiltonIsGod]

Sure, as that's what we certainly do believe, but my point is that we really don't know exactly why they didn't trade him. The plus for them is that they now have him for at least half of next year. The Indians can't say that about Lee now. We gave up on next year before this year was done.

The downer about the fire sale this year is the fact that Wedge will most likely be back. Joy, joy.

I think that Ricciardi really believed that a team would give in and meet his demands for Halladay. Now he'll be stuck in a similar situation that Minny had with Santana...they waited so long that they had to take whatever they could get for him.

It's easy to say now that the Lee trade looks lopsided but if the Phils weren't willing to part with their top prospects for Halladay then they certainly weren't going to for Cliff. At least Shapiro got the best value he could instead of delaying the inevitable and winding up with even less in return.

Yeah it sucks to see him go but honestly...even with Cliff and Vic I don't think this team would've sniffed the playoffs next year without some major luck. Hey, at least we have some young players to look forward to. I couldn't imagine being a Padres fan, rooting for a perennial losing team with a terrible farm system.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Bollocks. Cliff Lee has much more trade value right now as compared to next year at the trading deadline.

Don't believe me? Look at Mark Texiera's trade. One year, he's worth a King's Ransom, the next time he's traded, he's worth Casey Kotchman, who has just been traded because he is a below average hitting first baseman.

Now you could say that we didn't get fair value for Lee, which is certainly debatable, but to say there wasn't a reason to trade him now is wrong. Between value and the fact that we are not going to compete in 2010, it was an easy decision.

Here's my problem. We got the value for Lee that would be available next season at this time. When you're giving a team almost two years of Cy Young level pitching and all-star level offensive production, you need to get prospects like Daniel Bard back(I know he's in Boston, but it's just a comparison), or even a Justin Masterson. We didn't even get Philly's best prospects.

If we got the package we got for Victor for Lee, I'd actually be pretty satisfied with the trade. We got solid value for Victor, but I didn't want to trade Victor regardless of who we got. We got terrible value for Cliff Lee.
F

 

[Jon]

At least we're LEAVING the steroid era.

Nah, we've just moved in to the era of beating the steroids test. Manny sure learned his lesson. No doubt he'll work twice as hard to make sure he doesn't slip up on his masking program.