Keith Bogans to Cavs, Now Traded to Philly

[clevelandrox23]

What was the purpose of trading Bogans other than making the salary bill less for Danny boy?

 

[TheAdmin]

I didn't check your math in terms of the tax line, but I wanted to point out that the $5.3M TPE can be traded for a player making up to $6.725M if the Cavs choose to go over the tax line. TPE's can't be aggregated, but they would be calculated in salary for the Cavs as 125% the TPE amount (plus $100K).

So, there is a big pool of players the Cavs could pursue if they found a bad contract someone else doesn't want or added the right sweetener. Receiving a declining Bogans or a TPE wouldn't matter to the team trading for him, except in cases where Bogans could be flipped to another team. Maybe he will generate 29 TPEs?

If the Cavs want to stay below the tax line, they would have to maneuver in other ways.

The TPE cuts down some options because it can't be aggregated, but it lasts for a year, so it could be used before the trade deadline or next summer. The Cavs don't have to use it before this trade deadline.

Our second-round picks are like jellybeans on Halloween.

100% + 100k - non-simultaneous trade

 

[Lee]

What was the purpose of trading Bogans other than making the salary bill less for Danny boy?

Don't waste a roster spot on a cap space holder.

 

[TheISHT]

It puts us under the tax line. If we do not use the TPE this year, we could use the MLE in the summer, resign our guys, and still use the TPE before training camp next year.

 

[kovanovich]

I'm not going to post all their tweets here, but Nate Duncan and Zach Lowe have been having a discussion on why the Cavs made this deal.

Lowe likes the deal. It frees up a roster spot (which in itself is an asset), gets the Cavs out of the luxury tax (for now), and doesn't really impact their ability to add a significant player in the off-season. Haywood's contract is enough for that. If the Cavs are in the tax when Haywood and/or Bogans are eventually traded, they could only take back 125% of their combined salary anyway.

Duncan feels the fact the TPE can't be combined limits the Cavs' options a bit, so they basically gave up a second rounder to get out of the tax.

My view is that the Cavs never envisioned combining Bogans/Haywood to bring back a monster contract next summer, and even if they did want to bring back ~$20M worth in salary, they could still do so by including Thompson or Waiters, etc. Meanwhile, the Cavs are still in position to use the TPE this season. We've already identified the likely targets -- Pachulia, Mozgov, Biyombo, Dalembert, Mahinmi, etc.

Some of these guys might well cost either the 2018 first round pick or the MEM pick -- though I think we should be careful to assume we know what the trade market will look like a few months from now. The good thing is a guy like Mozgov might be seen as an asset that could be included in a Haywood trade next summer. There would be lots of possibilities.

Yesterday, Mark Deeks tweeted this:

 

[col63onel]

If the Cavs just wanted to get under the tax, they could've cut the Utah trio and accomplished that.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Double post

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If the Cavs just wanted to get under the tax, they could've cut the Utah trio and accomplished that.

We used them to acquire Bogans in the first place. And if we'd just cut them, we'd be out from under the tax but without the trade exception we now have. The whole thing is really pretty clever on Griffin's part.

Getting out from under the tax this year is huge. Not because it's not a lot of money this year, but because it delays for another year the dread repeater tax after Kyrie's contract hits.

 

[Andrew]

That $5.3 million trade exception can come in handy come the trading deadline and/or next offseason.

 

[col63onel]

We used them to acquire Bogans in the first place. And if we'd just cut them, we'd be out from under the tax but without the trade exception we now have. The whole thing is really pretty clever on Griffin's part.

Getting out from under the tax this year is huge. Not because it's not a lot of money this year, but because it delays for another year the dread repeater tax after Kyrie's contract hits.

That was what I was trying to say. This deal is obviously more than just a tax move.

 

[CommD]

Bismack Biyumbo will provide rim protection, rebounding, defense, unreliable-Andy protection, and a hedge against Thompson contract demands.

Would also potentially allow Charlotte sign Ray Allen for more money than CLE can offer, which is a good thing for CLE, as he is done.

 

[Tornicade]

If the Cavs just wanted to get under the tax, they could've cut the Utah trio and accomplished that.

Instead they got rid of 4 players . cleared 3.1 million and came out with a 5.3 million trade exception. they can use to sign a decent free agent in a sign and trade next season.

They also dont have to pay the guaranteed portions of lucas contract.

if they use the exception this season. they can ensure they come out under the 4 million tax apron.

Each move regarding bogans on its own had value.

 

[wuck]

I don't know if I believe the part about how this was always the plan (maybe one of the possible plans)...but this is from Lloyd:

---

The plan was always to use the three players obtained from the Utah Jazz in July — Erik Murphy, John Lucas III and Malcolm Thomas — to create this exception.

Those three earned a combined $3.3 million. It cost them a total of three second-round picks in the two trades, but by first trading for Bogans and then flipping him to the Sixers, the Cavs walked away with one exception worth $5.4 million rather than three individual exceptions with little value.

 

[kovanovich]

I have to think the Cavs knew they couldn't get what they wanted for the 3 Utah guys when they traded for them in July....at least as things then stood, and realized it was likely they would have to take the 3 players into the season.

The problem, as we diagnosed and anticipated here on RCF, is that this would require 3 deadweight contracts occupying 3 valuable roster spots. From the Love trade, it was clear the Cavs weren't interested in carrying unwanted players (that is, they avoided taking back unwanted salary/players from Minny). The Cavs wanted to use those roster spots on guys who they felt had a role on this year's team if at all possible. Haywood was a partial exception, but his contract was too valuable and they held out hope that he could be a viable big for them.

Consolidating the 3 Utah guys, or some combination of them, into a larger non-guaranteed contract made sense. I had forgotten about Bogans' unusual contract, though others such as Keys have said they thought the Cavs might target it. By turning Bogans into a TPE, the Cavs don't even have to carry one deadweight contract into the season.

My preference was to sign a veteran big -- preferably one with 10 years experience, such as Elton Brand -- and then use his contract along with Lucas in a trade to get a player making around $4.8M -- which would have been just enough to get Mozgov, for instance. The Cavs wouldn't have had to sacrifice 3 second round picks in this scenario.

The Cavs preferred to maintain a more streamlined roster with no deadweight contracts, and felt that securing a $5.3M non-guaranteed contract (which became a TPE) had enough extra value that they were willing to part with the picks. I have to think they considered my idea. Maybe they felt it would be bad form to sign a veteran player like Brand partly for his contract only to trade him a few months later. It might hurt their reputation going forward among veterans nearing the end of their careers (and their agents), and Griffin seems keen on cultivating relationships. (As it turned out, Brand re-signed with ATL for more than the vet minimum.)

With Powell and the 3 Utah guys now out of the picture, the Cavs now have 12 guaranteed contracts. Amundson makes 13. Ray Allen would make 14. The 15th would be Kirk or someone else they sign out of camp on a non-guaranteed deal. This quasi open 15 slot would allow them to sign a vet during the course of the season (Emeka Okafor?) or do something else creative (such as signing Scotty Hopson last season) that we aren't thinking of. In other words, the Cavs have a lot more flexibility at the bottom of their roster after having executed these Bogans trades.

 

[Douglar]

I'm almost certain that these recent trades go down as a waste of second round draft picks,but you never know.